How Do You Recognise Christ?
2 Corinthians 5:16"even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer."
Our understanding of this verse effects the gospel we preach and the Jesus we know. Therefore if we no longer know Christ according to the flesh.
How Do You Recognise/Know Christ?
If there were only one prayer that I might pray before I die, it should be this: “Lord, send Your church men filled with the Holy Ghost and with fire.” Prince of Preachers
Add Your Comment(13)
How Do You Recognise Christ?Posted by Correy Friday, January 27, 2006
After reading many creeds and belief statements
I decided to stick to my own
13 Comments:
We recognise the values and character of Christ in other Christians by the fruit of the spirit which they display.
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks."
- Luke 6: 43-45
"When you squeeze a Lemon, you should get lemon juice;
And when you squeeze an Orange, you should get Orange juice;
But when you squeeze a Christian, you should get Christ."
We recognise the glory of Chirst the living God in His creation which surrounds us.
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
- Romans 1:20
We recognise that Jesus is the Christ only through divine revelation.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
For it is written:
- 1 Corinthians 1:18-31
We are blessed when we know Christ through faith as we cannot know Him through intellect or physical evidence.
"Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
- John 20:29
Modern Day Magi states:
"We are blessed when we know Christ through faith as we cannot know Him through intellect or physical evidence."
Several questions about that comment:
First, are you a Fideist?
Second, how is your faith informed? It can't possibly be by any form of evidence if you believe what you have stated (and that would eliminate the Bible as proof for Jesus).
Now that i am a christian i can see the magesty and wonder of Jesus in everything. From the way i was protected from many different things in my life, the more i dabble into design theory and the complexity of His creation, in the glory and power of His worn the bible, as Jesus changes me to be more like Him etc. (although this last one is a SLOW process)
that being said i dont really understand the phrasing of my last point either, i was pretty tired last night when i posted that comment.
i think i was trying to bring up the order of belief in Jesus. faith is given to us by God so that we can believe in Jesus and then become free to explore the evidence which supports and strengthens our faith.
Without Faith in Jesus as God, Lord, Saviour etc the Bible is just another book of myth. Once a person can believe that Jesus is real and is the one true, living God, then the Bible becomes his word which is powerful and true.
forgive my ignorance t.b. vic, but could you tell me what a 'Fideist' is?
Magi,
I'm not sure what you were trying to communicate with this statement.
You write,
"Without Faith in Jesus as God, Lord, Saviour etc the Bible is just another book of myth. Once a person can believe that Jesus is real and is the one true, living God, then the Bible becomes his word which is powerful and true."
I strongly disagree with this statement as it is worded. The Bible doesn't become true simply because I believe in it. Rather the Bible is true and therefore, I should believe it. In other words, the accuracy of the Bible is not contingent upon my belief.
daniel:
i was trying to say that without faith in Christ we are unable to see the truth of the Bible. rather than saying the Bible becomes His word which is powerful and true i should have probably said. "the bible is revealed as being His word and true."
Magi,
Thanks for the clarification.
Puritan,
I take 2 Cor. 5:16 as saying that Paul has had a change in perspective. Before his conversion, he viewed people "according to the flesh." In other words, he used to evaluate people from a merely human perspective (the outward appearances). This is what the Corinthians were doing to Paul. They thought that he couldn't be God's messenger if he suffered
so much (check out ch. 10-13). Now he no longer looks at people in that
way (according to the flesh). Instead he evaluate things from the
perspective of being a new creation. He can't look folks and examine
them based on the outward appearances. That's my real brief take on it.
Here's an excellent sermon on the passage from Stuart Briscoe. He gave this sermon at Moody's Founders Week.
http://www.foundersweek.org/default.asp?sectionid=BBDFD5A184D644F38D36525A316FFAC6&subid=B01481641C5A4336B88594753974C651
Grace,
Daniel
Magi,
A fideist is one who believes that all knowedge is accepted only by faith. In other words, faith is placed above reason and in certain cases determines that reason is not needed.
It is quite problematic in terms of the tenets of Christianity. The reason I asked is that your comment, "We are blessed when we know Christ through faith as we cannot know Him through intellect or physical evidence." When you make a declaration like that you are, in essence eliminating reason and estblishing all knowledge in faith - this is fideism.
The problem with it is that you know Christ via reason, you also know God the same way. Prior to your ever coming to faith in Christ you knew Christ/God by several factors:
First, in that there is a moral law and thus there must be a moral law giver;
Second, in that there is a creation.
Therefore, through these simple things one can "reason" and know that God exists, etc. And this is known prior to conversion. After conversion you know Christ both by faith and reason. Moreover, there is an overwhelming amount of historical and archaeological evidence for the historical person Jesus - this would be understandin gthat there is a man Jesus and that he did in fact live 2000 years ago - and you undertstand this fact by reason, apart from faith.
Not to be rude, but might I suggest that you purchase some systematic theology texts and pour through them. I think this might help you gain a better understanding of doctrine and how doctrine cashes out in our everday experiences and thought.
Some of the better theology texts are:
1) Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theolgica
2) John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion
3) Wayne Grudem's Syatematic Theology
4) Millard Erickson's Systematic Theology
These will get you started and they are fairly easy to read. It is imperative that we (as Christians) learn to formalize our theology and thought and these types of works help us to do just that. In fact, if you will go over to Doug Eaton's blog he has a nice article titled "I Only Need the Bible" which touches on this issue in a simplistic fashion.
Doug's blog is Godward Thoughts
MDM: I enjoyed the verses you used they were pointing towards a good answer.
I think Daniel has come closest to the best answer but stopped so soon.
T.B Vicks: yes knowledge through the law, archeology and books is important and part of the answer but is that the full extent of what this verse is trying to show?
I would like to hint out again a quote from spurgeon on this topic:
If there were only one prayer that I might pray before I die, it should be this: "Lord, send Your church men filled with the Holy Ghost and with fire."
MDM-I like your first comment to this. I believe that we recognize Christ through the agape and koinonia that we share with other believers.
John 13:35By this shall all me know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
I John 1:3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
The indwelling of Christ's Spirit enables believers to love and fellowship on a level much deeper than they normally could. We can come to recognise his presence by what we share with believers.
thanks tb vic. i think the position you outlined is a bit off what i was trying to get at. i will try to make clear my position:
faith in Christ does not come from searching out facts or intelligence, these are the methods of the flesh to understand a matter. Faith in Jesus is spiritual, not factual, and as such can only be reached though the holy spirit opening our eyes. Not every person has the same measure of faith.
This however is not to say that God can't be seen in the world around us, its just that understanding who Jesus is, our Lord, saviour and only way for salvation comes only through faith. Other things may prompt us or lead us in a direction to search out God but ultimately unless we have the Faith we cant believe.
Things like grounding in correct theology, design theory in science, the complexity in the world around us, the bible, apologetic texts ass help to strengthen our faith but they are not the source of it.
i hope this helps you understand what i was getting at.
if you still think im off base then i ask only three things:
1. tell me where i am wrong
2. point me in the direction of the truth.
3. Pray that i find it.
thanks
Hello all,
I like all of your answers. Very well thought out. I guess my answer is that I recognize Christ in all people. For if we are all made in His image and likeness, then we should treat all as if they were Christ. Christians/Non-Christians, Friends/Enemies, we need to recognize Christ in all of them.
Magi,
I see what you are trying to say. I would add that faith (as well as grace) is a gift (Eph. 2:8-9). I like the way Martin Luther characterized it - Luther declared, "We are justified by faith alone but not by a faith that is alone."
I think what Luther was getting at, and I think you would agree, that while faith is a gift, it is also a faith that is informed - you received Christ not only with your heart but with your mind as well. You had to understand that Jesus is Lord, that Jesus is the only way to gain eternal life, etc. These are things we receive by faith but we also understand them by the use of correct reason.
Perhaps you will like this - God gives us faith and opens our minds to understand.
Anyway, I see what you are getting at in your explanation.
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