ORIGINAL SIN!
The SIN of Eve!Most Christians say, when asked;
What is the ‘Original sin, or the sin of Eve?
They always say, ‘Eve ate an apple’ or ‘disobedience to God’.
Sometime they say, she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:9
That is a broad statement and what does it mean?
I personally believe that the ‘Original sin’ is NOT eating and drinking, neither is the kingdom of God! Romans 14:17
ORIGINAL SIN! Genesis 3:14-15
Then God said to the Serpent; because you DONE THIS, (v. 15) YOUR CHILDREN (the Serpents children) shall be in enmity with her children (Adams children).
In this verse we can see that the Animal the Beast, Serpent or Satan bore his children into the human race, via Eve!
Eve introduced or mingled the Animal or Beast nature with the human nature, (mans nature) who was created in God’s image. Gen. 1:27
From that day forth mankind had TWO natures!
The Animal, Serpent, Beast, Satanic, Sin-nature,
And the Sinless Man-nature of Adam!
That is the SIN of Eve! The fall of Man!
Eve gave birth to Cane who had TWO natures, the nature of his Father the Serpent Gen.3:14 and 1 John 3:12 and also the nature of Man (Eve). Gen.1:27
In the family tree of origin; Adam did not acknowledge Cane in his likeness but Seth. Genesis 5:3 Cane murdered his (half) brother Abel, because he was born of the evil one his Father (the Devil)! 1John 3:12 and John 8:44
Also Adam is not acknowledged as the Father of all living, but Eve is the Mother of all living. Genesis 5:3
Before the fall, Satan and the Demons were external to human.
After the fall, Satan and the Demons were internal (in human).
Because of Eve’s sin we now have Demon-possessions and activities of various kinds, and the struggle of good and evil inside of every man and woman.
Like Jacob and Esau, in the one womb the struggle of two nations, or (two natures), the one whom Jesus loved and the other whom Jesus hated. Genesis 25:25 and Romans 9:13
And for this reason Jesus would not commit Himself to them, because He knew what was in them. (John 2:24-25)= (The nature of the beast).
Add Your Comment(36)
ORIGINAL SIN!Posted by Paul G Sunday, February 03, 2008
After reading many creeds and belief statements
I decided to stick to my own
36 Comments:
Yes I know that you would have many questions about that subject!
Because the information about that is limited in the Scripture, I will refrain from too much speculation publicly.
Perhaps you can see things in the Scripture I have missed.
Please feel free to share ideas or revelation on that subject so that I or we might expand our understanding in the Majesty of God’s creation and His purpose.
According to Romans 5:12 sin entered the world through one man, ADAM. NOT through EVE at all.
Also the phrase "sons of god" refers not to men at all but to angels, or fallen ones.
So the Nephilim could mean demonic - human hybrids. This also makes sence when considering the end times will be as the days of Noah Matthew 24:37. And since there have always been sinful men or as you call them "children of the beast" and Jesus has not returned yet we would have to wait for another global flood. However the rainbow signifies that this will not happen.
Interesting thoughts though.
Anonymous;
Romans 5:12
I think the word “man” also means Eve, since in Genesis 3:23 the word “Adam” also means Eve. (Check the foot note!)
As the evil one (the devil) entered through one woman into the human race. (Cain)
So did the righteous one (God) entered through one woman into the human race. (Jesus Christ)
It seems to me that in the Scripture Adam tried to hide the fact, that his wife Eve bore a son which is not his biological son.
Just like Joseph tried to hide the fact, that his first son (Jesus) was not his biological son. Matthew 1:19
The phrase “sons of god”!
I find it hard to believe that the fallen angels are sons of the true God.
If so! Then Satan who is a fallen angel would be a son of God and Jesus would be his brother. And that would be impossible!
Nephilim’s to be “hybrids”!
You have a good point there!
You have got to be kidding!
Cain was the son of Adam.
Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.” ESV
With this kind of stuff floating around your mind, there's no wonder you can not see the truth of scripture concern the Triune nature of God.
The bible does say that "I ate" a few times. (Gen 3:13)
Now let's say that I ate is symbolic for something else. Would it not follow that the seed of Eve and the seed of the serpant would also not be literal seed.?
"Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed;"
Good point PB!
If it is symbolic, what then would the seed be?
I personally do not like the word ‘seed’, I prefer the word ‘children’ even though it means the same.
Like any doctrine, it has to make sense; if it does not make sense, then the doctrine is most likely not true.
For Eve to eat an apple; that does not make sense.
For Eve to be disobedient; we know that all disobedience is sin, but the punishment for disobedience is too severe, and it makes no sense.
For Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; that alone makes no sense, unless it has an explanation.
Paul G.
You said,
"For Eve to be disobedient; we know that all disobedience is sin, but the punishment for disobedience is too severe, and it makes no sense."
The severity of the punishment should fit the egregiousness of the crime. The egregiousness of the crime is directly determined by the value of the object against which it was committed.
God is infinitely valuable. Any (and every) sin against Him is, therefore, infinitely egregiousness. So every sin deserves an infinite penalty.
The only way you can say the penalty for disobedience to God is too severe is if you have too low a view of God's value.
Funny, you would think that God's truth must be determined by your little mind's ability to comprehend it.
What was that first sin? A great explanation can be found in a sermon you can read or listen to at: http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByTopic/94/314_The_Emergence_of_Sin_and_Misery/. Read the section heading "The Nature of Sin".
T.
PaulG
I would say that both seed and ate are not literal but symbolic.
Satans seed are his spiritual children and Eve's children are really Christ's children who have been born spiritualy (born again) of God.
As to the original Sin of Adam I would have to say disobedience :)
Takin:
What was the original sin? in a sentence not a sermon.
Is genesis completely leteral? in relation to the account of original sin.
Takin;
Thanks for the link!
Piper does not know what the original sin is, so he said.
I do know what the original sin is, and I have posted it.
When a man does not understand a doctrine, he always uses a lot of words and quotes lots of Scripture to say absolutely nothing.
Puritan belief;
Many believers see it just as you have said.
A spirit can not reproduce and have spiritual children unless he is born into a body (male and female.) Spirits and angels have no gender.
If Satan had spiritual children, then Eve would also have spiritual children.
But it is impossible for her to have spiritual children, and then we still would not know what the sin of eve was.
To ‘eat’ would be symbolic language. I prefer the word ‘partake’, which is to take inside the body.
And the ‘seed’! I prefer the word ‘children’ which would be literal, the children of the Serpent and the children of Eve.
God said to the Serpent!
Your children shall be in enmity with her children. Gen. 3:15
An interesting thought!
The punishment for Eve was in the child bearing. Gen. 3:16. Why?
And they felt no shame when they were naked. Gen. 2:25
After the sin they realized that they were naked. Gen. 3:7+10. Why?
Disobedience could NOT be the original sin!
Eve had to do ‘something’ to be disobedient.
And that ‘something’ is the original sin and NOT the disobedience.
Genesis 3:13
Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this”.
Question; what did they do??
Answer; read the post again!
"In this verse we can see that the Animal the Beast, Serpent or Satan bore his children into the human race, via Eve!"
What a ridiculous stretch! That Cane is a literal and biological son of Satan.
The enmity is put between the Serpent's offspring and HER offspring. However you claim that what the Scripture mean is that there is enmity between Her children and Her children.
You read a verse then claim some 'spiritual' insight which lets you say the true meaning is this... even though you need to ignore, certain words you don't like, change some phrases or just make stuff up.
Paul G you criticized Piper by saying "When a man does not understand a doctrine, he always uses a lot of words and quotes lots of Scripture to say absolutely nothing."
With this post it is even more sinister. You are not saying 'absolutely nothing' you are weaving a tale to distort scripture with a creativity of one such as mr Dan Brown.
Qualifiers such as "I personally believe" are demonstrations of honesty but are also calling cards of one trusting in ones own understanding.
As to your question what was the Original Sin?
Adam's sin was allowing himself to be persuaded against the command of the Lord. Thus elevating 'man' above Christ.
Eve's sin was questioning the and sovereignty of the Lord. Thus elevating her own wisdom and intelect above Christ.
The Serpent's sin was to persuade another to question the authority and judgment of the Lord. Thus elevating himself above Christ.
PaulPg:
I think that from the smallest sin to the biggest we are trusting in our own knowledge rather then God's knowledge. To me the command "... must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" it is the perfect description of the first Sin of Man. To become Alive again we are again becoming totally depended on Jesus to impart to us his knowledge of what is best for us again. This is to "walk by the Spirit"
Anonymous:
The understanding of every verse in the bible is something that is given by the Spirit of God. Otherwise we would go to the scholar or the wise man of this age for understanding. However God has made these people ignorant of the truth so that we would seek Jesus for all truth.
You mentioned Satans offspring. Who are they?
Anonymous;
Every time someone interprets Scripture verses or a doctrine we all make stuff up, as you have said, including you!
I appreciate you sharing your understanding on the original sin.
The sin of Adam to be ‘persuasion’!
The sin of Eve to be ‘questioning’!
The sin of the Serpent to be ‘persuasion’!
That does not make sense to me! And it does not add up in relation to the original sin.
In that I have to trust in my own understanding and not in yours.
Just like PB, I would like to ask you; who are the Serpent’s offspring or children?
If anyone says that the tree of life is the person of the Lord Jesus Christ! Genesis 2:9+3:22
Then I will say that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the Beast, Serpent or Devil. Genesis 3:1
In Genesis 2:17 The Lord Jesus said; you should not EAT from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you EAT you shall surely die.
In John 6:53 The Lord Jesus said; except you EAT the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
In both accounts; do you think that Jesus is talking about EATING literally?
For anyone who believes in the ‘total depravity of man’.
Here you can see that the total depravity of man started right in the beginning with the first sin of Adam and Eve in Genesis.
They became totally depraved by committing the worst kind of sin which man could possible do in the sight of God!
And that sin is NOT eating and drinking, disobedience and persuasion or whatever!
That sin is adultery with the Serpent, to introduce his children into the Family-tree or the Family-line of Adam.
Adam and Eve had the full knowledge of the line of Adam and the line of the Serpent in the Family-tree.
We however have only the knowledge of what the Scripture has revealed.
In the post (picture) to the left, the knowledge of the good, (the sons of Adam). Genesis 5:3-32
To the right, the knowledge of evil, (the sons of the Serpent). Genesis 4:17-22
Question;
Why are there so many different races and skin colors?
If there is only ONE pure race, or gene-pool of ONE kind with one color like Adam and Eve, it would be impossible to have different races and skin colors.
That can only happen, if there is another gene-pool introduced.
For this reason Mary was a surrogate Mother to Jesus, and Jesus did NOT share the gene-pool of the Serpent only Adams.
But you and I including Mary shared the gene-pool of Adam and the Serpent.
OK then!
You are not exactly forthcoming with ideas or a word of wisdom on that subject.
Do you read your Bibles in the presence of the Lord and with the help of the Lord?
Or do you read your Bibles through the eyes and understanding of other men?
So I will ask you one more question;
Why did the Lord Jesus set it up like that and planned it in all the details so that Adam and Eve would fall in sin?
What was the reason??
Hey there,
Just quickly and im sorry for not taking much time to process this topic before reading it ( im in internet cafe and paying by the min!) But i think the orgional sin is unbelief.
Satan said to eve somthing like, 'did God really say....', stiring up doubt and question and planting 'seed' of doubt. Through doubt, unbelief sprang up and unbelief will work its way in till our eyes are blind and our ears dont hear and our hearts are hard.
With your question paul as why God allowed all this...i think its quite simple. Was to show his glory. Everything is done to show his Glory.
just my thoughts :)
Kellie;
Yes! I am sure that all you have said points to the original sin, unbelief, doubt, disobedience and persuasion.
But all that is NOT the original sin, it is only leading up to it.
Eve must have done ‘something’ to commit the original sin and that ‘something’ is the original sin, just as I have said.
You said; “everything is done to show His Glory”.
Yes, that is true!
But where and how can I see His Glory?
I was looking for an answer like;
The Lord God the Almighty Jesus Christ set up His creation and the fall of man so that He could come into the world to prove and show Himself to be an omnipotent Mighty savior who would not lose one of His children, but to save them all.
hey,
So you saying paul that eve committed adultery and had sexual relations with satan? If thats the case wouldnt adam also had to have committed adultery cause he ate also?
sorry that was from me, kellie :)
Kellie;
I suspected that question about Adam would come up.
The Scripture has limited information about Adams sin and publicly I like to stay within the frame of the Scripture.
If you like to know more about that subject, then prayerfully read the Genesis account and the Lord Jesus might give you more insight into that.
It will help you immensely if you believe in the ‘T’ = TOTAL DEPRAVITY OF MAN, because the total depravity of man has to go right back to the beginning Adam and Eve.
mmmmm....i will prayfully consider this......i would of never of thought .
another thing though, it doesnt say in the bible that cain was abels half brother. It says he came from adam. Sorry i dont understand what you say about him.
Kellie;
Yes! That’s right; the Bible does not say that Cain was Abel’s half brother with those words.
If the Serpent fathered his children through Eve and Adam fathered his children through Eve, then Cain would be Abel’s half brother, the same Mother and different Fathers.
The Scripture says that Cain is of the evil one who slew his brother (1 John 3:12) and Eve is the Mother of all living (Genesis 3:20).
You said that Cain came from Adam.
That is true, but Adam means also Eve! Check the footnotes in Genesis.
Not that I think that the footnotes in the Bible are the word of God, but they sometimes help to get a proper understanding since the ORIGINAL SIN is hidden from the natural man and he cannot see it. But the spiritual man discerns all things especially when that request has been made in humility and prayerfully to the Lord Jesus.
It is the Spirit who leads you in all the truth (John 14:26).
So you believe that somehow an incorporeal being had physical union with a woman, impregnated her with DNA from who knows where, and begat viable offspring?
No, really. You BELIEVE that?
And before you point to the Incarnation, the Holy Spirit has the power to create. Satan does not.
Anonymous;
We are not talking about creating things,
Adam did not create and the Serpent did not create anything.
With the DNA; I think you should be smart enough to know where it came from.
In the Lord’s creation, each kind could only reproduce after their kind.
But that was not so with the Serpent!
The Serpent was different than any other beast of the field, please read it a few times and you will be able to see it.
We are dealing with a real serpent (refer to belly, dust) and a real Deceiver (Satan).
Is it your assertion that Eve copulated(!) with a reptile(natural serpent), or with a demon?
If you accept Eve as having been created without sin, why would this gross and obvious physical aberration be appealing to the as-yet unblemished Eve when the same, or even equivalent, sin would turn the stomachs of most people today.
People today, even many among the world have sense enough to be repulsed by casual sex with strangers. Was Eve less moral than that?
Was Eve in her innocence MORE prone to wickedness than those of us who inherited corruption?
Jn Baptist said "God can raise up children from Abraham from these very stones" This was obviously not a reference to physical lineage.
This is further reinforced by Gal 3:7 "that those who believe are children of Abraham"
Besides "private interpretation" and supposed superior revelation, what support FROM the ACTUAL BIBLE do you offer to lend credibility to your outrageous claim?
Generally, "Child of" in Hebrew usage was to show similarity of nature. In this case, sinful, corrupt, opposed to God. Obviously, angels do not marry and are not given in marriage, it would seem they are ill-equipped for sex. Your ideas have no basis in the word of God, and are evidence of someone who plays very fast-and-loose with scripture.
A word of caution: James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
More time spent in prayer & study, and less time airing unproven opinion would save you embarassment now, and stricter judgement in eternity.
Unless, or course, your only goal is to fan your ego. In that case Christ's glory would matter so little to you that you can "easily afford" to continue being flippant with His Word, and deal with any ramifications somewhere down the line.
(after re-reading the beginning)
You say: "I personally believe:"
God says:(2 Peter 1:20) "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,"
[Original sin is not a term used to desribe the inital rebellion and Fall. It's generally used to describe total depravity, man's inability to approach God by his own righteousness.]
Leaving that aside, look at how Jesus was tempted. Did Satan bring a two dollar prostitute by Him? No. It says he (devil)was subtle. Sexual immorality is blatant. Review His temptation to see what subtle looks like.
The Fall is all the more heinous in that keeping God's command was incredibly easy:
Trust God's character and integrity. In so doing, you trust (and rightly interpret) His word. Trusting it, you obey a simple yes/no command.
It wasn't' because she was hungry that Eve ate the fruit. She didn't have a need. She was convinced of her own autonomy. She was coaxed into becoming self-directed, rather than God-directed.
THIS was her sin, and continues to be ours, each and every time WE sin.
Anonymous:
Is the tree of life a person?
Before I blindly answer your question, I would ask you:
Since the Rock and Manna in the Wilderness were both types of Christ (iCor10:3), were they therefore any less physical? Were they not food to nourish, and a physical rock from which came water?
The fact that Jesus is the Way, Truth and Life; that Life is found in Him in no way diminishes that they be commanded not to eat "the fruit of the tree", or that (God's words) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.
Could they somehow partake of Christ without His consent? Is that why they were driven out, with the way back barred?
My answer to your question: the tree, in the garden, was (by God's own words) truly a wooden tree.
That does nothing to diminish the reality of Jesus Christ being Saviour.
Anonymous:
Spurgeon in his sermon "Christ the tree of Life" says
"But here we translate the metaphor; we do not understand that tree to be literal. We believe our Lord Jesus Christ to be none other than that tree of life,"
Most people can see this one as perhaps you may change your mind if you do a word search in your bible for "tree of life"
I clicked on your little "chart".
Your use of correction-fluid, your spelling errors, and your use of the lower-case in the word "God" are a level of carelessness and intellectual apathy consistent with your sloppy interpretation of God's Word.
All smoke, no fire.
Intro V. WHAMMY While you are learning to master and learn guitar playing techniques with your left hand, you will want to ensure that you are also not forgetting about your right hand technique. You will want to use a gaping device to get this near and then change it to your own playing style. If there is also significantly minimal conclude when you strum a chord then you will want to lower the pick up on the best or low E string side. If there is as well considerably treble then you will have to have to do the exact same on the bottom conclusion of the guitar or the superior e string side. * Index finger on the B string (second skinniest) - first fret.
INHERIT ORIGINAL SIN? BY STEVE FINNELL
If the false doctrine of original sin is true how would Christian parents pass it on to their children?
Ephesians 5:25-27...just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish. (NKJV)
How would it be possible for the church to be holy without blemish and be able to pass the inherited guilt of Adam's sin to children of Christian parents?
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said , "Behold The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (NKJV)
Does Jesus take away all sin except original sin? He did not die for original sin. Original sin inherited by men is not found in the Bible.
If children of Christians inherit the sin of Adam then why do they not inherit the individual sins of their parents such as drunkenness, murder, adultery etc.? Why, because children do inherit any sin at all.
Men are only guilty of the sins they themselves commit.
Men die physically because of Adam's sin.
Men die spiritually because of the their own sins.
The doctrine of total depravity and original sin that is inherited from Adam is a fabrication of men.
How would it be possible to inherit sin from a Christian who has been cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ?
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com
Post a Comment
<< Puritan Belief