The TRINITY, the THREE gods!
Trinitarians firmly believe that THREE separate entities are ONE God. Without hesitation and without questioning they say that the Bible says so. And when you ask them, where does it say that ? then they bypass every common sense and sober judgement and quote you a number of verses from the Bible where the Lord Jesus is supposed to pray to the Father (John 17), or where Jesus makes statement such as (John 10:30) where Jesus said, “I and the Father are ONE”. And then they say, you see, the TWO are ONE ! meaning, that both together are one God, or might quote you, (KJV. 1 John 5:7) “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.” Even though the Lord Jesus Christ said, “Hear, O Israel ! the Lord our God is ONE Lord ” (Mark 12:29) and that they shall have NO OTHER gods before Me (Exodus 20:2-3).But the trinitarians still insist that God is three persons in one God.
Against all common sense trinitarians argue that the Father is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore they believe in another god whom they call Jehovah or Yahweh their Father.
The moment they separate the Father from the Lord Jesus Christ then they believe in TWO gods. And when the Holy Spirit is neither the Father or the Son, then they just have made for themselves THREE gods which they will worship.
And for that reason the Lord said in Revelation 13:8 “All who dwell on the earth will WORSHIP him (the devil), everyone whose name has NOT been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the lamb who has been slain.”
Please let me hear your thoughts.
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The TRINITY, the THREE gods!Posted by Paul G Saturday, April 07, 2018
After reading many creeds and belief statements
I decided to stick to my own
80 Comments:
Paul firmly believes that THREE separate entities are ONE Jesus. Without hesitation and without questioning he says that the Bible says so. And when you ask him, where does it say that ? then he bypasses every common sense and sober judgement and quotes you a number of verses from the Bible which doesn’t support his man made doctrine.
Please explain, so that I have something to work from.
When you say that Jesus is the father, Jesus is the son and Jesus is the spirit, you are saying the same thing the Trinitarian‘s are saying. Instead of using the word God, you use Jesus. Yahweh, our father, is spirit. That spirit resides in all true believers, the Remnant. When you say that the Trinitarian’s are polytheistic, you’re only condemning yourself.
Oh no my friend, I do not say the same as the trinitarians.
I say that the title ‘Father’ belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ and the title ‘Son’ also belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ and the description ‘Holy Spirit’ also belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Can you see, ONE God the Lord Jesus Christ with three titles.
Or ONE person the Lord Jesus Christ with three titles, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Unlike the trinitarians, three PERSONS in one God.
Persons are known, while God has become unknown, and thus ‘polytheistic’.
And NO, our Father is NOT Yahweh !
Our Father is the Lord Jesus Christ who has caused Himself to be born into His own creation Immanuel (Mat.1:23)
You can change it all around and make it sound logical and reasonable but bottom line, you’re just like the Trinitarian‘s. You can call it a title or whatever you want it’s still three in one.
"Still three in one".
Three in ONE, WHAT ? do you mean potato, ONE potato ? or what ?
I would assume that you mean, ONE person who is God ?
And YES to that !
One person the Lord Jesus Christ just as I have explained above. He is the true God and eternal life (1 John 5:20), and any other is the devil or Satan.
1, the father, 2, the son, 3, the holy spirit, is 1 Jesus. It’s simple math. You are a Trinitarian. You re-worded it in a different package, but you are still a Trinitarian. Maybe it’s your subconscious condemning you for your false doctrine. You condemn the speck in other peoples eyes, while not seeing the plank in your own.
Honestly, it’s the Spirit of God that is calling you to the God of the Bible, Yahweh. Yahweh is one God, not the many gods of your false doctrine.
No my friend, you are thinking ‘PERSONS’ and I am saying ‘TITLES’.
1, 2 and 3 are NOT 3 persons.
Those are THREE TITLES of ONE person which is the Lord Jesus Christ.
JESUS also holds the TITLE ‘Lord’ and ‘God’ throughout the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
Christians have a confusion in their minds that every title is another person and then they end up with many gods, a trinity of gods.
And because their gods are many, they worship many gods, which amounts to polytheism, ‘the GODS’.
Now your god Yahweh is a false god which is NOT in the Bible and has been invented by cults like the Jehovah Witnesses etc. and then they have demoted the Lord Jesus Christ to a mere man and a servant of that fase god called Yahweh or Jehovah etc. therefore I urge you to repent of that false god and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Trinitarians say the same thing that you say. It’s all from the same story book. Titles, persons, it’s all the same thing. All you polytheist have to missconstrue and twist the Word of God to get your false doctrine. Yahweh isn’t just my God. He is your God and he will bend your knees and humble yourself before him and the Messiah, his Son, Y’shua/Jesus. He has put me in your life, at this moment in time, so you’ll have absolutely no excuse, when you are forced into a prostrated position before the Messiah. You will proclaim Yahweh as Your God and Y’shua/Jesus as your Messiah, Lord and King.
Look my friend, do you know what a title is ? it seems to me that you haven't got a clue what a title is.
Doctor is a title, and NO it is NOT a person it is a TITLE !
Doctor, God, Son, Father and Lord are TITLES of the ONE person Jesus Christ our only Lord and God.
Look Keith, if you can’t see that, then there has to be something drastically wrong with you, or you are DELIBERATELY being ignorant.
Therefore stop being ignorant and admit that Lord, God, Son and Father are TITLES of JESUS Christ.
And those are NOT four separate persons.
It is NOT all the same thing as you have said.
Come on Paul! That Satan‘s oldest trick. You can’t just change the word and expect change the meaning. Do you really think that I would buckle under your insulting barage of name calling. I am strong in the Lord. The Lord has made me strong. I know that you can understand simple logic and rationale. There is a Dr. Jones, a Dr. Smith and a Dr. Johnson just down the street. Those are three separate titles, representing three separate man, all part of a group called doctors, not all one doctor. Your rationale holds absolutely no water. You’re a Trinitarian. You are polytheistic. It’s time that you come to realization that you are a pagan believer in God. Throw away those pagan beliefs and come to Lord God for a true relationship with the one and only God of all creation, Yahweh. Discard your little gods. It’s easy because they’re all in your mind. Cleanse it with the Word of God that leads to Yahweh, through his son, Y’shua/Jesus and no one else.
You are still don’t get it, don’t you ?
You said, “There is a Dr. Jones, a Dr. Smith and a Dr. Johnson just down the street. Those are three separate titles, representing three separate man, all part of a group called doctors, not all one doctor.”
Yes, blind Freddy can see that they are three separate man who are three separate doctors, and yes, everyone is ONE doctor, therefore they are a group of THREE doctors.
But God is ONE and that is Doctor JESUS, and NOT doctor Yahweh and doctor Smith and doctor Johnson etc.
There are many people who have the title ‘god’ or ‘lord’ or ‘father’, but for us is but ONE God the Father (1 Cor. 8:6) and that ‘God’ and ‘Father’ is the’ LORD’ Jesus Christ.
Jesus holds ALL those three title and many more, He also holds the title SON.
But you are giving those THREE TITLES, Father, God and LORD to some other one NOT mentioned in the Bible called Yahweh. And therefore you are denying the Father.
And the Lord Jesus Christ is not a little god as you have said, He is the ONLY God there is (Jude 1:25), and He is the Creator of heaven and earth and everything in it
You said, “Yes, blind Freddy can see that they are three separate man who are three separate doctors, and yes, everyone is ONE doctor,”
Thanks for making my point. You are definitely a Trinitarian.
By the way, if blind Freddy can see it, why can’t you?
I had to bring this over here to show your blindness to everyone who reads your blog.
You keep repeating my words back to me is not going to change what the Bible actually says, my friend. Also, totally ignoring my supporting verses will not change the truth. You have your head in the ground, refusing to read what it says.
OK, Paul, let's read it together. Hebrews 2:17. I know you can do it. What does it say.
Here is it comes.
For this reason he HAD TO BE MADE like them, FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that HE MIGHT BECOME a merciful and faithful high priest IN SERVICE TO GOD, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
God is not a human. Quit being stupid.
and yes, in 2 Corinthians 5:21
...He MADE Him who knew no sin TO BE SIN on our behalf.
You cannot be that blind. Look at it. Read it. I'm sorry but I have very little patience for idiots tonight and people that make things up.
Keith, you said, “There is a Dr. Jones, a Dr. Smith and a Dr. Johnson just down the street. Those are three separate titles, representing three separate man, all part of a group called doctors, not all one doctor.”
You are talking about ONE TITLE which is 'docto'r, and that is for THREE persons who have the same title. And those are NOT THREE separate titles as you have said, but ONE title, for three persons.
Yes, just look at it and read it before you are calling me an idiot.
And yes I have to read the word back to you because you don’t make any sense. And I have told you that you have a confusion in you mind and don’t know what a title is.
And then I have said, “There are many people who have the title ‘god’ or ‘lord’ or ‘father’, but for us is but ONE God the Father (1 Cor. 8:6) and that ‘God’ and ‘Father’ is the’ LORD’ Jesus Christ.
Jesus holds ALL those three title and many more, He also holds the title SON.”
I can’t say it more CLEAR than that !
You said, “For this reason he HAD TO BE MADE like them, FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that HE MIGHT BECOME a merciful and faithful high priest IN SERVICE TO GOD, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.”
Yes, FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY. (1 Tim. 3:16) It was God who appeared in a BODY ! and not Santa Claus.
It was Jesus WITH the TITLE God who appeared in a BODY, and it was Jesus who sacrificed Himself on the cross for our sins and NOT Y’shua, or do you want me to say that it was GOD who went to the cross.
(Isa. 45:22) Look at Me and be SAVED, for I am GOD and there is NO OTHER !
If Jesus is God our savior and there is no other (Jude 1:25 and Isa. 45:22), then why do you call Yahweh to be your savior ?
You said, “God is not a human. Quit being stupid.”
Have you been reading what I have said above ?
Yes, God IS a human being, it is Jesus Christ who is that God who came in a BODY and was made just like one of us, A HUMAN BEING (Immanuel).
After all, it was Jesus Christ with the TITLE God who created Adam just like Himself in His image, in God’s image, a human being.
Before you are call me stupid you need to think what you are saying, and obviously thinking is not your strength.
All the unbelievers and pagans said the same thing to the Lord Jesus Christ just as you are, and I quote from the Bible, “John 10:33 They said, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a MAN, make Yourself out to be God”.
And before you are calling me an idiot, just look at your own math.
You said, “1, the father, 2, the son, 3, the holy spirit, is 1 Jesus. It’s simple math. You are a Trinitarian. You re-worded it in a different package, but you are still a Trinitarian. Maybe it’s your subconscious condemning you for your false doctrine. You condemn the speck in other peoples eyes, while not seeing the plank in your own.”
Would I say such nonsense ? no Keith, I would not even remotely state such nonsense. All that is YOUR perverted perception.
But I am saying, 'Father' is the TITLE of the Lord Jesus Christ just the same as the TITLE 'Son' also belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ, and 'Holy Spirit' is also the TITLE of the Lord Jesus Christ and 'LORD' is also a TITLE of the LORD Jesus Christ and including ‘God’ is also a TITLE of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is JESUS Christ who holds every title and every crown there is in the Bible.
But you are taking the title 'God', and the title 'Father' which belongs to JESUS Christ, and you ascribe those two titles to another god whom you call Yahweh, a god which is NOT mentioned in the Bible, and then you claim to believe in the Bible.
No Keith, you can’t fool me with your anger outbursts and your insults.
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...and yet you continue to state the same thing over and over. I totally understand your false doctrine. There's just isn't any scriptural support for it. You actually have to ignore scripture to arrive at such a doctrine. It's a foreign doctrine. You’re thinking with your human brain rather than within the spirit. You understand that God dwelled within Jesus, but you don’t comprehend that they are two separate beings. You ignore the fact that God cannot sin, will not sin or will not come in contact with sin. You also ignore the fact that God made the man Jesus, all in order for you to wrap your mind around your false doctrine. You just don’t understand the mystery of the God, even though it is written in plain English.
You remind me of a man who was given directions, by his friends, to a local Playhouse. The directions included multiple turns, in order to get there safely. Thinking that you know better, you decided to go a different route and end up in a bad part of town where you got mugged and killed. Later, when you meet in heaven, your friend asked you, “why didn’t you follow the route that I literally gave you?“ You respond by saying, "I thought they weren’t literal, but only suggestion or metaphors.
That’s why I think you’re an idiot at times. You can’t follow directions sometimes and then decide they are only suggestions at other times. In the same way, you can’t arbitrarily think a Bible verse is literal then turn around and say another is a metaphor when it goes against your beliefs. You will end up mugged in this world and killed with nothing gained.
By the way, I was not angry, just stating the facts. Are you getting a little touchy or emotional? Yes I lose patience with you When you say idiotic things, but angry, no.
No Doubt, Do you honestly thing that he will look at anything other than what his cult leader has given him? You constantly show him what is actually in the Bible, but he won't even look into it. Paul has spent too many years supporting a false doctrine. He has married the whore that rides the beast. Isn't it obvious?
Well Keith, haven’t you read in the Bible, “for the anger of a man does not achieve the righteousness of God” ( James 1:20).
And NO, you have not been stating any facts at all my friend. But to the contrary, you have been stating illogical nonsense which amounts to deception, like doctor Jones and doctor Smith and doctor Jonson are THREE separate TITLES.
THREE separate Titles ?
Well, my math. tells me that that is ONE title called ‘DOCTOR’ of three separate persons.
No Keith, you can’t ignore such a graven error, you need to CONFESS that error in order to be forgiven. Otherwise you WILL pollute the entire Bible with your deception.
Yes, I’m waiting !
And humble yourself before the Lord.
And also, You said, “1, the father, 2, the son, 3, the holy spirit, is 1 Jesus. It’s simple math.”
What simple math. ?
That is NOT simple math. My friend.
That is called DECEPTION !
You said, “God is not a human. Quit being stupid.”
Yes, God IS a human being, it is Jesus Christ who is that God who came in a BODY and was made just like one of us, A HUMAN BEING (Immanuel).
After all, it was Jesus Christ with the TITLE God who created Adam just like Himself in His own image, in God’s image, a human being.
Yes I know that you don’t like hear the truth and therefore you will not acknowledge what the Bible says.
I am still waiting.
Anonymous, are you also one of those who reads the book of Alibaba and the forty thieves instead of the Bible ?
Why don't you quote the Bible, if you would believe the Bible ?
Every body can accuse someone of something, without the facts.
Open up your Bible and and speak from the Bible, yes, from the Bible and NOT as Keith is doing, he is quoting from the book of Alibaba and the forty thieves.
Paul, thanks again for proving my point. You are a polytheistic trinitarian and thereby a pagan believer in God.
Is that all you can say my friend :-)
I have expected from you to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Remember the Bible doesn't say that you must believe in a god called Yahweh.
The Bible says in Acts 2:38-39 “Repent, and be baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the LORD our GOD will call to Himself.”
Well, don’t you think that is possible that the LORD Jesus Christ our God might NOT call you to Himself ???
Keith, you said, “ You are a polytheistic trinitarian and thereby a pagan believer in God.”
Well Keith, don’t you think that a polytheistic pagan believer would believe in the gods ? rather than in God who is one, and certainly NOT in God with a big “G”.
Yep, Done that. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
You have done WHAT ?
Apart from you believing in a god who is not WRITTEN in the Bible called Yahweh, you haven't done anything at all my friend.
What you need to DO is, REPENT and the BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
And then you have to choose a different tree, perhaps the tree of life which is in the middle of the garden (Genesis 2:9), that is the tree for you to bark up.
I have done exactly that my friend. I have confessed my sins. I have repented of my life choices. I have given myself totally over to God through his son, Y’shua/Jesus. Even though I sin an on a regular basis, I trust completely when the word of God says that God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins if we confess them daily. I glorify Jesus for his commitment to God and to the cross and his daily intercedence on our behalf. Above that, I glorify the one and only God Yahweh, whose name is written over 6000 times in the Bible. I must warn you that I do believe that you contributing Yahwehs agape love for all of us to Satan is exactly what the Pharisees did to Jesus. That my friend is what Jesus said was the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin. Be very very very careful with your words. Only you and God really knows if you’re doing out of ignorance. I hope and do believe it is ignorance. I pray for your soul daily.
Not at all my friend, you have NOT repented from believing in that false god called Yahweh.
And the Lord Jesus Christ did NOT commanded you to repent of your sins every day.
That is useless religious church stuff to satisfy your guilt.
You ought to REPENT from believing in that false god ! THAT IS YOUR SIN !
Your false god, he is your problem.
You need to DO what Jesus has said, and NOT what you think or like to do.
And repent means, to turn away from that false god, and come to Jesus Christ and then you shall be saved.
Keith, you cannot come to Jesus with a devil hanging of your back, and for that, repentance is required, and that is NOT EVERY DAY.
Only once, and then confirm it in water baptism.
And don’t try to be smart and bring Y’shua with you, leave your Hebrew roots behind and become a NEW Creation, and old things have passed away and behold ALL things have become NEW.
Do you honestly think that I would abandon the word of God? Seriously, why would I abandoned the word of God, which is really true and provable and take up a fantasy, that you have made up in your mind.
Let’s take a look at your beliefs.
1. You have unseated God from and placed his son on the throne.
2. You deny the name of Yahweh appears over 6000 times in the Bible.
3. You blaspheme the name of God and call him Satan.
4. You believe that Jesus is the father, the son and the Holy Spirit, a Trinity of beings, when God is one, not three. You are definitely a trinitarian.
5. You believe that you are sinless, not requiring confession.
6. You believe that Satan slept with Eve and has Cane.
7. You feel OK to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
8. You think Jesus spoke English.
9. You believe Hebrew is Satan‘s language.
10. You believe Jews are Satan‘s children.
11. You can dim your brothers and sisters salvation and not their fruits.
12. You have no problem saying one thing, then turning around and saying a totally different thing, just to make yourself look good.
13. You lie and ttell everyone that Jesus has appeared to you, telling you anti-biblical things.
14. You believe Satan is able to create things.
15. You think it’s OK to take the Bible literally in one place then turn around and say it’s a metaphor in another place when it goes against your beliefs.
16. You believe it’s OK to tell people to side with an English translation when it goes against the original Hebrew text, from which it was actually translated.
17. You believe that God is sinful or can be made sin.
18. You believe that God is all knowing but forgets things at times.
19. You believe that God has a split personality and talks to himself. He prays to and worships himself
20,. You deny that Jesus is the son of David.
21. You deny that Jesus is the son of man and the son of God.
22. You believe that God picks or chooses people to be savedl, while choosing others to be sinful and damned.
I could list more that are within the gray areas that you and I disagree on but this is the list that is clearly anti-Bible.
So, would I choose your man made doctrine and over God’s doctrine? Absolutely not? I don’t like to flirt with damnation.
Yes Keith, you have already abandoned the Word of God because you don’t believe in the Bible. You have used a substitute instead of the Bible.
Oh Keith, accusations with NO substance behind :-) and we both know who the accuser of the brethren is.
Would you like me to tell you ? Yes, from the Bible of course ?
Please tell me my friend, how exactly did God sent one of His sons into the world without being TWO of them ?
Oh yes, you think that there were TWO of them in the beginning, the Father AND the Son, a duality of persons ?
And what about the THIRD one, did God sent a THIRD one the Holy Spirit of truth also into the world ?
So, what does your math. say this time ? :-)
Come on, NO excuses !
One day you have to stand before the Judge of all, my heavenly Father the Lord Jesus Christ and then you have to give an account to Him.
Paul, you see, the Lord makes you speak the truth through your lies sometimes. You are correct when using the word substitute. It means, “a person or thing acting or serving in place of the original.” The original is the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek text, not the English Bible which was taken from the Hebrew and Greek. You see, it’s called a Freudian Slip. Deep down inside, your subconscious and your soul knows that I speak the truth. It yearns for you to turn away from your evil ways and return to Yahweh, through the Word of Godd, his Son, Y'Shua. Thanks again for proving me correct.
By the way, where in the world did you get the two son idea? You are off the deep end, my friend.
May I know the stand of Puritans? Are you oneness? or two ness or trinitarians?
Keith, God has MANY sons, or don’t you think so ?
But you are saying that “God sent one of his sons into the world.”
Only ONE special son who is not like the other sons, and then the father and the son would be TWO persons who were in the beginning, or don’t you think so ?
Well that is real math. :-)
Now, we both know that God sent a THIRD one, the Holy Spirit of truth into this world.
So tell me, God is one person, the son is another person, and the Holy spirit is another person which God has sent into this world.
And remember, they ALL were in the beginning with God.
So, tell me, how many gods were there in the beginning with God :-)
Hi Faith, the 15 century puritans believed mainly in the trinity, but not all of them, some were unitarians who believed in one God the Lord Jesus Christ, perhaps the same as we or I do.
Now my blog has the title “Puritan Belief”, but that does NOT mean that we believe the same doctrines as the 15 century puritans did.
As you can imagine, the puritans had severe disputes among them concerning the doctrine of God.
But as for me, I believe in ONE GOD (Unitarian) and that God IS the Lord Jesus Christ, He is my Father who is in heaven.
Very Good, Paul! You are actually reading your Bible. Yes, Paul. God has many sons, they are the B’nai Elohim (Angels) and the Remnant (True Believers).. However, God has only one perfect human Son, that he sent to die for our sins, Y’shua/Jesus.They are not God or gods. This is where you get into trouble. Your belief in multiple God’s make you a polytheist, not a monotheist, as you claim.
There is only one God, Yahweh. There was only one God in the Beginning, Yahweh Elohim, who is one God, with many dimensions. The Word of God, as you say, is a title of God, one of those dimensions. The Word of God, the same that manifested in the creation of Y’Shua/Jesus, came forth from God’s mouth and brought all of creation into being, for the sole purpose that we be reconciled back to God through Y’shua/Jesus.
Well my friend, you still don’t get it.
Now, we both know that God sent a THIRD one, the Holy Spirit of truth into this world.
So please tell me, God is one person, the son is another person, and the Holy spirit is another person which God has sent into this world.
And remember, they ALL were in the beginning with God.
So, tell me, how many gods were there in the beginning with God ?
Look, just count them, or do you want me to count them for you ?
No Paul! You’re confused again. What are you drinking? I want some. :-) LOL But seriously, your spirit is your spirit not a separate entity or person. In the same way, God‘s Spirit is his spirit, not a separate entity, person or son.
So then, God is Spirit, and He sent His Spirit.
How could He do that ?
God extends his Spirit throughout the universe. He exists everywhere. When the Bible says that God sent his Holy Spirit, it meant that he extended his spirit into the innermost parts of all true believers. He didn’t send a person. He extended himself as it was in the beginning with Adam and Eve.
Keith. If the Spirit of God exists everywhere, then He does NOT need to send the Spirit into the world, that is senseless foolish speculation.
You said, “He didn’t send a person”.
What ! “He did NOT send a person” ? Phenomenal !
So then, God did NOT send a person to lead you into all the truth ?
I think that you are in desperate need of repentance my friend.
The Bible said, that it is the LORD Jesus Christ who is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17) and He will lead you into all the truth.
Yes, JESUS CHRIST my friend.
Paul, What you need is to read the Bible for what it says. You fail to see God for what he is and what he has done for you. Again, here is what I believe. Check out the link to my newest post below. We are told that only the Spiritually Minded Believers, The Remnant, can comprehend the existence of God, within our Space-Time. I hope one day your eyes will be opened.
Understanding The Existence Of God.
Keith, I just have been quoting the Bible, or don’t you read the Bible ?
You have been told is a LIE !
You have NOT been told the TRUTH.
If the Spirit of God exists everywhere, then why would He need to send the Spirit of God into the world ?
And, if the Spirit of God is NOT be the PERSON of the Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 3:17) whom He send into the world, then WHO was it ?
Just give me a reasonable answer, an answer with REASON and NOT what you have been told by deceivers.
I remember a time when you told me that you don’t quote the Bible. What is it? It’s one thing to quite the Bible, it’s another thing to misinterpret it. Satan has lied to you in the same way he misled Eve
Just stop small talk and give me an answer.
If the Spirit of God exists everywhere, then why would He need to send the Spirit of God into the world ?
And, if the Spirit of God is NOT the PERSON of the Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 3:17) whom He send into the world, then WHO was it ?
Again, I answered your question. God allowed his Spirit to descend upon all believers, the Remnant. God ascended upon all believers at our baptism, in the same way he descended upon Y’shua/Jesus at his baptism. God’s Holy Spirit is God himself, his presence. It’s not a separate person. As soon as you say another person, you are splitting God apart. He is not longer One, he is more than one. This is why I keep telling you that you are polytheistic, a Triniitarian. True believers are monotheistic. God is one God, not multiple persons in a godhead. That what I was trying to show you over in my blog.
Also,God respects our sovereignty, our autonomy. Therefore, God’willnot extend his Spirit into our innermost being, without being first invited. He will only change us, if we ask him to.
No Keith, you did not answered my question.
Who is the Holy Spirit ?
The answer is simple, like always.
IT IS JESUS ! just as it says in the Bible 2 Cor. 3:17.
If the Holy Spirit is NOT the LORD Jesus Christ, then necessity demands from you to believe in two or three gods.
The same goes with the “Father”, if the Father is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ, then the Father and Jesus Christ would be TWO entities (Persons), which equals the trinity, just as you believe.
And for the same reason you say that one god is talking to another god, and then the third god always raises his head to be the complete trinity, just as you have said in the baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Look my friend, trinitarians say that God is ONE.
And then they teach that God is THREE, just like you.
You said, “True believers are monotheistic. God is one God, not multiple persons in a godhead.”
Yes. that is certainly true, but that ONE God is the Lord Jesus Christ and NOT Yahweh.
Remember, the moment you separate the Father from the Lord Jesus Christ then necessity demands that you believe in the trinity.
Or you just claim that Yahweh is God, and the LORD Jesus Christ is just a man working for God, a servant.
And that is exactly your problem and your sin, and you need to repent and believe in the LORD Jesus Christ.
Also, ONLY God, the Lord Jesus Christ is sovereign, and no other.
Or, do you think that you are sovereign ?
I think that you ought to humble yourself before the LORD and consider Him alone to be sovereign.
No, it’s not and you can’t find one supporting Bible verse to validate your false doctrine.
Look at the beginning verses of 2Cor 3. It talks about God, not Jesus. It evens says, “...through Christ before God,”
“Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
No, you are so wrong. You don’t even care about the context of what you are reading, do you? You just read it the way you want to. Who cares about what God is trying to get across.
Yes, 2 Cor. 3:14-18 “But their minds were hardened; for until this day at the reading of the old covenant the same vail remains unlifted, because it is removed in CHRIST.
But to this day whenever Moses is read, a vail lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the LORD Jesus Christ, the veil is taken away. Now the LORD is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the LORD, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the LORD, the Spirit.”
Now, just stop saying that 2 Cor. chapter 3 speaks of another God, other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
Everything is about the LORD Jesus Christ and nothing is mentioned about a god called Yahweh.
Which LORD do we behold as in a mirror ?
Well, blind Freddy can see that the LORD is the LORD Jesus Christ.
LORD is another word for GOD.
And the context of 2 Corinthians 2:3-18 is about the LORD Jesus Christ, and NOT about the devil called Yahweh.
From Genesis to Revelation, when the Bible says “LORD” that means GOD. So then, don’t you divide those two titles and call someone else God.
Now the Spirit of the LORD is the LORD Jesus Christ, and where the Spirit of the LORD Jesus Christ is, there is liberty.
Now, if you don't accept that, then there is no need for me to talk to you any further.
It’s amazing that you feel so comfortable adding to God’s Word. Don’t you think he knows what he’s doing, that you feel the need to change it to accommodate you false man-made doctrine. You know very well that It does not say LORD Jesus Christ anywhere in the Bible. Why can’t you just read what’s really there and follow the Lord of the Bible as he dictated it?
You said, “ You know very well that It does not say LORD Jesus Christ anywhere in the Bible.”
Anywhere in the Bible ? Just read the Bible, and don’t say that the name Yahweh is mentioned over 6000 times when it is NOT mentioned ONCE, not even once.
Yes, 2 Corinthians 3:14-18 is talking about “CHRIST”, and it is JESUS who is the Christ.
Because only in JESUS CHRIST your vail will be lifted.
But as it is, you remain in darkness till you turn to JESUS CHRIST, and only then you will now God, who is the Lord Jesus Christ (Immanuel, or as Isaiah has said ‘the mighty God’).
You are 100% correct that it talks about the Christ, not God. Christ is the Messiah, the anointed one, the prophet that would be raised up after the model of Moses. Not God. Read your Bible for what it says, not what you imagine it says.
Yes, it is talking about JESUS who is the CHRIST and it is Jesus who is the SPIRIT (2 Cor, 3:14-18).
Therefore it is JESUS who is the Spirit of God, for God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24).
Romans 8:9 New International Version (NIV)
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
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Thanks, Anonymous! I like what the next two verses say.
“And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.“ Romans 8:10-11
C’mon Paul read what it says, not what Paul the German-Australian believes. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit that raised him from the dead. That is God’s Spirit. The same Spirit that dwells within us. That Spirit is our Spirit and it doesn’t make us God. God dells within Jesus and us. Isn’t it time for you to read the Bible, not the Paulble.
Thanks Anonymous, can you expound on that quotation please.
Keith, 2 Cor. 3:17 said, “Now the LORD is the Spirit’.
That means that the Spirit is the LORD Jesus Christ.
And those who worship Him, must worship must worship the LORD Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth, just like in Matthew 28:9, ‘And they took hold of his feet and worshiped the Lord Jesus Christ.’
And NO. The Spirit is NOT your god Yahweh, and you shall NOT worship Yahweh, for the LORD Jesus Christ is a jealous God, visiting the iniquity on the third and fourth generation.
Paul, my friend, that is called circular reasoning. You can’t set up an example and then lead back around to it.
First of all, the LORD is God. The LORD is spirit. The Spirit dwells within Jesus. There is absolutely no where where it states that Jesus is the spirit. I just showed the fallacy of your reasoning in our last comments.
As for worshiping Jesus, I have told you repeatedly that because Jesus did what he was supposed to do perfectly, he would receive high praise and worship . This was prophesied in Zechariah 6:12–13.
Tell him that the Lord Almighty says, "The man who is called The Branch will flourish where he is and rebuild the Lord's Temple. He is the one who will build it and receive the honor due a king, and he will rule his people. A priest standing by his throne, and they will work together in peace and harmony.'
The temple is clearly a reference to the Holy Spirit and the branch is the man Jesus. You cannot disagree that they work together in peace and harmony. For that reason, we worship him. This was dictated by God himself. Quit being ignorant of what the Scriptures say.
Absolutely NOT Keith.
The LORD GOD does everything ALONE !
Isaiah 44:24 “I am God, I make everything ALONE”.
Consequently He does NOT have an offsider working alongside with Him in His creation.
It was the LORD Jesus Christ from the beginning who created the world without an offsider.
And He did NOT created anything THROUGH another one. (OK, I said ‘created’ and not made)
The LORD Jesus Christ spoke through the mouth of the Prophets, saying that He Himself, the LORD would be born through a virgin and that He, the LORD would be called Immanuel, mighty God, everlasting Father etc. and the governing factor shall be on the shoulder of Jesus Christ the LORD. It was God who caused Himself to be born into His own creation JESUS Christ the Lord.
You said, “The temple is clearly a reference to the Holy Spirit and the branch is the man Jesus. You cannot disagree that they work together in peace and harmony.”
Absolutely NOT !
The temple is the human BODY where the Spirit supposed to dwell.
And NO, the Lord does NOT work in harmony with anyone, He does everything ALONE.
Yes, Paul, the body is the temple. But you must ask yourself, ‘Why is it called the temple?’ Not everyone’s body is a temple. The body is a temple only when they step out on faith and has been baptized into the Messianic faith. So, Paul, yes indeed the temple is symbolic of indwelling of God’s Spirit.
No Keith, I do NOT need to ask myself that kind of nonsense.
You supposed to know that, and not always cooking up those wild nonsensical anbiblical stories.
The temple is NOT symbolic of indwelling of God’s Spirit.
And don’t always try to smooth talk yourself out of your dilemma.
And if the Lord Jesus Christ our only God who makes everything alone, then don’t say that the Lord is working in peace and harmony with your god called Yahweh.
Look Keith, it’s time for you to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and then you shall be saved, believe NOT and you shall be damned.
Remember, that is the gospel, and do not harden your heart, and do not let your pride hinder you from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
For pride is the beginning of destruction.
A simple question for you Paul, is everyone’s body a temple, including nonbelievers?
Certainly NOT.
Only those who are born from above, their body has become the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Then explain to me how the temple is not symbolic of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Again, the temple is literally the body of the believer, but symbolic of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I honestly think that you just want to argue not discuss.
The temple is the body and is not symbolic and neither is the Spirit symbolic, so then, when a person is born again, the Spirit, or the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Father, or God had moved INTO that person.
And that is experiential and not symbolic.
Jesus said, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘you must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Paul, you do realize that something can be literal and symbolic at the same time?
Yes, there are always people who pervert the truth and say to those who are not experientially born again that they are symbolically born again.
Such men are only giving false comfort to those who have not been born again.
I know that there are churches who teach that water- baptism IS the new birth.
Once you come out of the water of baptism, then you are born again, and so they think and teach that all who have been water-baptised have been born again.
Of course, that is NOT true.
As for being born again, it’s simply born again. There aren’t any different kinds of being born again. However, we were talking about the temple and what it symbolizes in the Old Testament. The temple did not represent the body in the Old Testament. It pointed to the future indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
You said, “ The temple did not represent the body in the Old Testament. It pointed to the future indwelling of the Holy Spirit.” Which is the BODY, just as I have said.
So, you agree with me that Zechariah 6:12–13 is talking about Jesus?
Keith, you said, “The temple did not represent the body in the Old Testament.”
And I said the temple DID represent the BODY in the Old Testament, whether it is the body of the Lord Jesus Christ or our body or both, for God does NOT dwell in a temple building or in a box, but in the body of Jesus Christ.
Paul, You are a master at twisting words, Bottom line is that you just agree that the Temple is the body of a believer with the spirit dwelling within. Since the gift of the Spirit wasn’t given to believers until after the resurrection, Zechariah 6:12-13 clearly points a latter time. Therefore, a body during Old Testament times did not have the Spirit dwelling within and the difference between the body in Old Testament times and New Testament times is the holy spirit. With all that said, are we in agreement that Zechariah 6:12-13 is a prophecy concerning Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Correct?
No Keith, I have not been twisting your words, I have been quoting your words, and then I have answered you according to your words.
YOU said, (not me twisting your words) “a body during Old Testament times did not have the Spirit dwelling within”
Numbers 27:18 Joshua, the Spirit was in Him, and not to mention David in Psalm 51:11 and take NOT thy Holy Spirit from me.
And what about Elijah, Isaiah and all the Prophets of God ? did they not have the Spirit of God dwelling in them ?
Well my friend, you need to read the Bible and not the book of Alibaba and the forty thieves.
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You know very well that the permanent indwelling of the Spirit became a reality after the day of Pentecost. The indwelling of the Spirit during the Old Testament times was on a temporary basis. That’s why David ask God not to remove his Spirit. The Spirit was given to the craftsman who worked on the tabernacle. Again, you read but lack understanding. You like the milk but haven’t tasted the meat. I’m actually giving you the benefit of a doubt, when I say you are ignorant of God’s Word because the alternative is that you are being deliberately deceptive. So, I ask you again. Is Zechariah 6:12-13 a prophecy concerning Jesus and Spiritual indwelling of the believers body, the future temple? No more twisting of my words. You are not stupid. You know e exactly what I’m asking. Please answer the question.
So, now it is the PERMANENT indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
And where does that say in the Bible ?
Don’t you think that Joshua had the Spirit of God PERMANENT in him ?
And what about David, was the Spirit of God was NOT PERMANENT in him ?
And what about Elijah ? and when did the Spirit of God leave Elisha ?
Well, that makes me think that you don’t really believe that the OT. saints had to be BORN AGAIN, just the same as we must be born again in the NT. ?
Is there anything that you believe from the Bible Keith ?
Or do you only believe those false teachers who teach you from the book of Alibaba and the forty thieves ?
Well, everyone can see how you divert the conversation in orde to not answer a simple question. I’m finished with playing your games. As parting proof that you are wrong again to anyone who would read our conversation, I say the following.
YHWH said to Moses: "Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, lay your hand on him" (Numbers 27:18).
The Spirit of the Lord came upon him and he judged Israel (Judges 3:10).
Two verses to show that the Spirit wasn’t in everyone and had to come upon certain believers in order to do a special activity for God.
Finally, Jesus said to his disciples that the Spirit was with them and then later it would be in them, all in the same comment.
You have to ask for understanding, not just read the Words of the Bible.
If you want to continue this conversation, please answer the question concerning Zechariah 6:12-13. No more diversion tactics. Resist the evil spirit that dwells inside you. Ask yourself, would Jesus act the way you do. Jesus always answered the questions directed to him. I know that you want to be like him. You are clearly falling short of that goal.
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