Puritan Belief

The Puritans are the men of God who started in the 16th century building on the purity of the gospel message that Salvation is by Grace alone.

Prosperity is not a dirty Word?

Extract from a sermon given last Sunday by one of Australia's biggest and most influential churches.
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I watch certain responses. Certain glossy news magazines in our nation that are getting upset about churches that are prospering. I just start to think hey "You don't understand do ya" You don't understand. I actually... Listen to me loud and clear. I actually don't believe that small poor churches can make a difference in the world. Take that for what you want. (big pause to let it sink in.) .... our income in this church I can publicly go on record and say it is 10 times what it was 5 or 6 years ago. And how many of you know that it needs to be 10 times that if we are going to do the things Gods put in our heart. ... (Talk about how much the church gave to the Tsunami...) We need to prosper, as I said before tiny small poor churches can't help anybody they barely survive.
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Mark 13: As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!"
"Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Add Your Comment(24)

Prosperity is not a dirty Word?
Posted by Correy Edmed Wednesday, October 04, 2006

24 Comments:

Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

What is more important, giving a poor man some cash, giving a hungry man a meal, giving a cold man a blanket or giving a dead man life?

While all are noble gestures, giving a dead man life is far more important. The only way we can share life is by sharing the Gospel, both through our words and actions.

God is not there simply to bless Christians with wealth, although He does do that in some cases. God is not a cosmic vending machine. God is there to Give dead men life through His blood and His death.

When the teaching of prosperity goes from honoring God to focusing on the blessings it sure does become a dirty word.

MDM

October 04, 2006 1:38 PM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

From interest, which church?

MDM

October 04, 2006 1:42 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

One of QLD's mega churches.

October 04, 2006 1:55 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

This church would say it is preaching the gospel to more dead people then all the small churches put together you do realise. They have huge political influence and media influence.

My question is what are they preaching? They are against abortion, premarital sex, For monogamy and they encourage a good lifestyle.

Perhaps a better question is what aren't they preaching?

Answer: Jesus exalted to the highest position.

Like all forms of catholicism the organised church has replaced Jesus with themselves ever so subtly.

October 04, 2006 2:20 PM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

just a question, what was the early church like? didnt they put all their possessions together so everyone had what they needed and they met regularly not only in houses but at the temple and paul addressed his letters to the 'congregation' at corinth and appointed some to be pastors, teachers and he even set up a school so people could be taught about the things of God... ( i know that goes against jer 31:11)...

do you think its possible for churchs to get back to the original design for 'church'? (Please look past the church lingo here)

October 04, 2006 7:43 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

1. They went to the temples to evangalise the unbelievers.
2. Christians are naturally generous.
3. It is the Lord who appoints pastors not man.
4. The church of the firstborn has never departed from it's original design.

October 04, 2006 8:03 PM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

1. they met at the temple to worship
2. Money doesnt grow on trees
3. God appoints through men
4. do you think the church of the first born can have community like they did in the early church? A community of thousands together?

October 04, 2006 8:43 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

AllforLove:
Christians were hunted down and killed in acts and they suffered incredible persecution. It reads to me like the temples were built for practicing Judaism 100's of years before. While the Christians went from house to house and would come to these people who practiced Judaism to tell of the now revealed God Jesus Christ.

Money can grow on trees and it can be plucked from the mouth of a fish. The Lord certainly doesn't require one cent to save any of his elect and if he wants he will supply it in any fashion He wills.

Hannah got it right in the old testament when she prayed saying it is the Lord who makes rich and the Lord who makes poor.

In my experience God doesn't appoint pastors through men. He does this of Himself. By His Spirit he equipps His pastors beforehand for every good work that he prepares beforehand.

The real pastors I know would never have the title Pastor infront of their name and would blush if you said they were a pastor for they know there is one shepherd of his one and only flock, His name is Jesus.

The Man-Appointed-Pastors in these church businesses are professional salesman at best.

October 04, 2006 10:55 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

If you read the Old Testament with Solomon you will notice that there was one purpose for it's creation and that is so that the Lords Name could be revealed.

The Lord never wanted to reside in man-made temples with man-appointed Pastors and man-made schedules.... Do you not know that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit. This is where the Lord has revealed His Name "Jesus Christ" --> --> in us.

October 04, 2006 11:02 PM   Edit
Blogger elessi said...

So are you saying it's wrong for churches to do useful work in the community and missions, or just that there are better things they should be preaching about?

October 05, 2006 8:19 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

in my opinioin hannah was blind for she went to mt sinai , but we go to mt zion. The blessings of the lord makes one rich ( in all areas) and with it there is no sorrow (prov). Define poor for me.

we are the temple of the holy spirit. buildings will fall. but together we are a community and this is what im talking about.

God works through man so its not man who appoints but God. He prepares us for the work he has for us to do. u know the verse...God gives gifts to some to be pastors/teachers/helpers...its not about title but about the gift God has given you for his purposes. Not out of your own merit.

October 05, 2006 8:36 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

christians met in the temple to teach and worship before there was persecution, then they all scattered... i believe there will come a time in the western world where this will also happen. Places like china it already does, but that doesnt make them more christian because they are being persecuted.

October 05, 2006 8:42 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

PB: you said - '
Money can grow on trees and it can be plucked from the mouth of a fish. The Lord certainly doesn't require one cent to save any of his elect and if he wants he will supply it in any fashion He wills.'

It doesnt cost anything for the lord to save you. But food, shelter, clothes, a life...does cost something. Yet we shouldnt worry about all these things for the lord will provide. How will he provide this? the goose that laid the golden egg? :) Well even the goose costs something to look after.


Deuteronomy 15:4However, there should be no poor among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you,

Acts 4 : 34
There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

October 06, 2006 6:39 AM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

Allforlove:
I am just trying to work out exactly where you are heading.

Let me tell you where I was heading.

Many churchs today have turned into successfull businesses. To achieve their goals they require the pew sitters to pay more and more to the church. And get more pew sitters so they can get more money. They think that by becoming rich and influential they can grow even bigger and help even more people.

But how are they helping them to heaven or hell?

I agree with this verse in the context of the modern day church:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. Matt 23:15

Therefore I think perhaps the biggest mission field of our day is these churches. Just like in the early days of acts how the christians went to the temples to evangalise. (Acts 4:1-2)

October 06, 2006 8:10 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

PB, sorry if my scattered thoughts make it hard to understand where im going. I'll try and keep my thoughts in order, but that may be impossible :)

Firstly though, i believe you have the motivation of this church incorrect. I do believe that there are churchs out there who's purpose is power and control (catholic church), but not all churchs are like this...

which is why im questioning your authority here.

I could say you use jesus to make yourself look spritual, but then i would be out of place to make this judgment as i do not know you.

you said : 'They think that by becoming rich and influential they can grow even bigger and help even more people. But how are they helping them to heaven or hell?'

Firstly, christians are naturally generous.
secondly, does God need our help in saving his own?


Jesus says not to bother with the pharises for they are blind guides.

I think you do a good job in lifting up JC and having a heart for those who are lost.

October 06, 2006 1:36 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

modern day magi:
and all trinitarians,
When I say "God", I mean the Lord Jesus Christ.
When you say "God" you mean the Siamese triplet-god of which Jesus is one of them.
We are talking about two different gods and not the same God with a difference of understanding.
Please do not use any other language to confuse the issue.
My mother tongue is not English yet I write to you in English.

The word of God is NOT Greek!
It is NOT Hebrew!
It is NOT Aramaic!
Not Latin or any other language.
The word of God is Spirit and Truth!

The trinitarian churches deceive their congregations by saying, ‘in Hebrew one means three’. This is the great lie of Satan because he is the Father of all lies and that is his native language and all his children speak his language.
Remember the five foolish virgins and what Jesus said to them, "depart from Me, I never new you!". Surely the Lord Jesus knew about them but He said, "I never knew you".
They did not know who Jesus is. They had another Jesus and another spirit.
Trinitarians do not confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord God the almighty.

October 08, 2006 12:57 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Trinitarian churches universally all say, we believe in the Scripture, (solo Scriptura) and to be the authority over us.
The Bible says not to call anyone any titles! …yet they love and demand that you call them Bishop, Cardinal, Reverend, Father, Pastor and the list goes on and on. There is no end with their pride and arrogance. These men go from bad to worse. Some of them make their wives to be Pastors and Teachers in their congregations and usurp authority over the men.
They all say “we believe in the Bible”.
Do you know in the Bible not one of the disciples of Jesus is called by any titles? They are all called brothers. This breed of hierarchy in the trinitarian churches also teaches tithing to be scriptural by quoting 'Malachi' and saying, “you are stealing from God if you don’t tithe!” They distort the teachings of the Bible to extort massive amounts of money from their congregations in order to build their name and empire.
Churches here in Brisbane, Australia say, “tithing is only a CURSE INSHURANCE; it is only what you give after tithing which is considered ‘giving’ to God”.
I do not know what to say of such men but their deeds go before them to judgment.
They all say, “We believe in the Bible”.
They also baptise their congregations into three titles or into their religious denomination and not into the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Some trinitarian denominations teach not to speak in unknown tongues, prophecy, healing, miracles, or cast out demons etc. etc. Instead of casting out demons they send them to the psychiatrist to suppress the demon with drugs. The word 'demon possessed' is not anymore used by them but it is replaced by the word 'mentally imbalanced' and other fluffy words.
However they all say, we believe in the Bible and in God.
I wonder in what Bible and in what God they believe?
Jesus rightly said "even the demons believe in God and they tremble!"
Such men do not have the fear of God in them, nor has it been granted to them to repent of their ungodly ways.
If you have ears to hear, hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

October 08, 2006 1:12 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

I believe Jesus is building his church and raising up a generation who Love Him and know him intimately and who love People.

They give to church not out of obligation, but out of generosity.

They unite with like minded people, not to promote their group, but because there is power when the people of God get together.

They dont need doctrines written inside building walls to spell out what they believe...its in their heart.

They dont care where they meet, its only a building, but while the resources are there, they use them...and if they are kicked out, they will find somewhere else to meet together.

They lift up the name of Jesus as the lover of their soul, their savior. God almighty. Their faith defines them and baptism is just an outward symbol of the transformation in their heart. It doesnt matter if they are baptised in the name of the father , son , and holy spirit...its all jesus to them.

They are totally in love with Jesus...their first love and only love and their lives are reflections of this love.

They are strangers on this planet and people wonder why they are so happy and joyful and generous. Because somehow depression and disfuntion are normal.

This is the church of Jesus Christ.

October 08, 2006 11:35 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

I tried to find something good to say about the trinitarian churches but I can not find anything.
I know that only few trinitarians believe in the doctrine of predestination which is also called, 'the doctrine of the sovereignty of God'. But do not boast in that doctrine because every devil believes that God is sovereign.
If you do not believe that the sovereign God is Jesus Christ then what you believe has no true significance and your doctrine lacks power.

October 09, 2006 12:40 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

The church of Jesus Christ ( not talking about this denomination) believes in the soverign God. We walk in it every day and make choices and believe with all our heart that he will direct our paths and we trust in him.

The enemy believes in the soverinty of God, but does not trust him. but because we do,we stir up this gift of faith inside us under his soverign hand over our lives.

Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. We have faith in his Grace and mercy over our lives, We have faith in his provision over our lives, we have faith of his love for us. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith- let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, - heb 10:35 37For in just a very little while,
"He who is coming will come and will not delay.
38But my righteous one will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him." But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

There is great power in this.

October 09, 2006 7:01 AM   Edit
Blogger Samantha said...

"I actually don't believe that small poor churches can make a difference in the world."

God can use whatever and whomever He wants to display His glory...whether that be a small church in a believer's basement or a mega church.


(ps) paul g, does every discussion become a "trinitarian" argument?

October 09, 2006 12:10 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

allforlove,
What you have said, I say amen and amen!
The children of the Lord Jesus are the apple of the eye of the Lord. He fervently loves them, He cares, corrects, teaches, shelters, rescues and leads them. They can never be lost, Jesus is their mighty savior and the everlasting Father to His children, who would never abandon them.
No weapon formed against them shall prosper and no accusations against them shall stand.
The children of the Lord love their heavenly Father with all their heart, might, soul, and strength. They especially love the fellowship with their heavenly Father. They hear and love His voice and all His instructions, guidance, corrections, teachings and all of His ways. They adore and worship Him in Spirit and in truth and their eyes are firmly fixed on Jesus. They do not look to the left or the right but they look to Jesus. They are a mighty force who are hidden in Christ Jesus our Lord.

October 10, 2006 1:34 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

samantha,
Perhaps you do not know.
There are only two types of churches;
The true church and the false church.
The bride of Christ and the harlot church.
The church of Jesus Christ and the church of Antichrist, Rome and all of her daughters the trinitarian churches.
If you would have eyes to see you could read the word "Ichabod" next to their denominational name.
So then to what denominational church do you belong to??
An old saying is "that you can not jump into a pile of manure and not stink".
Or translated, you can not have fellowship in a false church and not be polluted by her. I think you know what I mean!
This is why The Lord Jesus is calling His people out of her and be separated or they partake of her sins, that is, the sins of the harlot church.
Of course she tries to hide her sins and at her best she tries to look like a sheep, at her worst, she is a roaring lion and a vicious wolf.

October 10, 2006 1:51 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

Paul G,

I praise God with you :) No words can really discribe the Jesus we serve. He is the everlasting God, prince of peace, eternal Father, the beginning and end.

October 10, 2006 10:13 PM   Edit

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