Puritan Belief

The Puritans are the men of God who started in the 16th century building on the purity of the gospel message that Salvation is by Grace alone.

SALVATION = Two Sided (according to Scriptures) !

SALVATION according to the Scriptures is two-sided, natural and spiritual.
Natural in blessings, healing and prosperity.
Spiritual as in the new birth, spiritual life and life abundant (John 3:3 + John 10:10).
Salvation is temporal or eternal or both.
Temporal as in blessings, healing and prosperity.
Eternal as in the new birth 'born again' (John 3:3-15), this new birth is experiential and not theoretical.

SPIRITUAL  SALVATION is the new birth and is eternal salvation and depends only on the will of God.
The new birth is performed solemnly by the Lord Jesus Christ alone and is by GRACE alone the unmerited favour of the Lord towards His children alone (Eph.2:8).
This new birth is the salvation from spiritual death to spiritual life for every child of God who was in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4). 
In Adam all have died and in Christ Jesus all have been made alive (1Cor. 15:22, Eph. 2:5), they will be born again, not by their will or the will of any man but only by the will of God alone (John 1:12-13), and they can never die again (John 10:28) because they have received eternal life. 
For them alone the Lord Jesus Christ has died on the cross (John 11:51-52) and everyone who was in Christ has died with Him and shall also live with Him (2 Tim.2:11, Gal.2:20) and he He will save His children to the utmost (Hebr. 7:25) by giving them Spiritual life and He will lose not one of His children (John 17:12) (omnipotent saviour). 
The Lord Jesus Christ will make His abode (in Spirit) in the body of each one of His children the elect (John 14:23) and so they become the body of Christ His Church on this earth (Mat. 16:18, 1Cor. 12:27) (eternal salvation by the Spirit of Jesus Christ).

NATURAL  SALVATION is a temporal salvation and depends on the will of men.
This salvation is by works (deeds) and is for everyone who believes (Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42, Mat. 10:22, James 5:15, Ps. 107:19, 1 Tim. 2:15, Mat. 14:30, Luke 1:71, Mark 16:16, Ps.7:10), that is for Satan's children and for God's children alike who are obedient to the Lord and His written Word (the Bible) or doing what is right (Gen.4:7), but they will never see or enter Life in the Spirit (John 3:36).
In temporal salvation men must believe to get the result and also must act upon that belief, for God blesses and rewards the righteous and the unrighteous alike, that is both Gods children and Satan's children according to their deeds (Rom. 2:6). It is the will of God that no one should perish, but all to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4), the word 'all' means the elect and the non-elect and refers only to natural or temporal salvation and not to the new birth, to the Calvinist the word 'all' means the elect only, and to the Arminian it means everybody who is willing to believe.
Both, Calvinists and Arminianists amalgamate the natural and the spiritual salvation and therefore are divided on the salvation doctrine.

(Luke 18:42) “And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.”
It is obvious that this blind man was saved from physical (natural) blindness and not from spiritual blindness, it doesn't say or indicate that the blind man was saved from a spiritually dead state to a born again new life of the Spirit.
(James 5:15) 'The prayer of faith saves the sick', (1 Tim.2:15. + Mat.10:22. + Mark 16:16. + Luke 1:71.), all those passages and many more relating to natural salvation, and everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved (John 3:18).

The question is;
Which SALVATION did you receive?
Saved from certain difficulties, troubles, sickness or calamities?
Saved from eternal death to a brand new life of the Spirit in Christ Jesus our Lord and God?
Or both?

Please let me hear your thoughts.

Add Your Comment(48)

SALVATION = Two Sided (according to Scriptures) !
Posted by Paul G Saturday, August 17, 2013

48 Comments:

Blogger Michel Haineault said...

There is only one salvation by faith,the other salvation is the false salvation of tars.We have only one church and it is the body of Christ,you are in Christ or you are in the world (sins).There is no temporary body of Christ for temporary believers.You are a true believers or you are not.eph4:5 :there is only one Lord,one faith,one baptism (in the spirit) this double salvation that you teach remember me of the dispensationalists who believes there are two salvations one for the church and one for carnals
Jews and if i follow your idea there is a third salvation for the believers in Christ ?? This contradict the dead of Christ,who died for the one the father gave him (the predestinated) How can there be another Salvation than the eternal Salvation? You talk about a "temporary salvation" witch mean for me a false Salvation,because the gift of Salvation is eternal life not a temporary life! When God save ,its for eternity,because Salvation is God gift witch mean the gift of the Holy Spirit,the Spirit seal the elects one,only by the Spirit we can repent and follow Christ.To follow Christ is to obey and love truth and justice that we find "in his name".
Natural salvation? is this a new gospel?gal.1:7 If somebody preach another gospel..he his to be accursed! The salvation by works , the arminian gospel is a false gospel,it is the gospel of the glorification of men and it is not a biblical salvation but an eternal condemnation.Only one Salvation !but many false gospels.

August 18, 2013 10:42 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Thanks Michel for your comment.

In this post I have divided salvation into two sides which is according to the Scriptures.
One side is natural salvation which is by works like belief, faith, ask and do whatever the Scriptures say, the other is salvation of the spirit which is by grace alone, that salvation is a free gift of God and not by works lest any man should boast.

There is not such a thing as a false salvation, either a person is saved or not. The question is, saved from what??

If you have fallen into a river and I have saved you from drowning, then you have been SAVED from drowning or dyeing which is natural death and temporal. I did not give you a new birth (spiritually) and neither eternal life which is salvation from the dead unto life eternal.

(Luke 18:42) The blind man wanted to SEE, that is because he was physically blind and he believed that the Lord Jesus could give him eyes to see, so the Lord Jesus gave him exactly that he had asked, eyes to see. It is the blind man's faith that SAVED him from being blind, (natural salvation by works).
Did the Lord Jesus SAVE the blind man from spiritual death and gave him spiritual life eternal, (spiritual salvation by grace)??

Absolutely NOT !

There is no point to read things into the text which are not there.
If SALVATION is in the natural, then it is temporal, (by works) and is NOT eternal.
If SALVATION is spiritually (born again) then it is eternal and by GRACE alone (unmerited).

Because the Calvinists and the Arminianists do not understand that, therefore they are in constant opposition with each other.
Biblical SAVATION is both, either natural or spiritually or both.
A person can be SAVED born again and at the same time NOT SAVED from cancer.
A person can be SAVED from a sickness or a disaster and NOT SAVED spiritually by being born again.
Paul

August 19, 2013 7:47 PM   Edit
Blogger Michel Haineault said...

Paul thanks for your answer
Healing of the sicks will always be a miracle not a salvation.It is simply not the same faith.There is only one faith that give eternal salvation as you do believe.There is no temporary salvation,but there is a false salvation by works.You are dead in your sins or you are reborn in the Spirit,there is no in between.
Natural salvation is not biblical because nobody is naturally save,this is a catholic approach to salvation.You said there is no false salvation ? but arminianism is a false salvation by work ,lot of peoples think they are save but they are not,so there is a false salvation,Paul call it the "other gospel"(Also remember the parabole of the 10 virgins).Save from a sickness is not a salvation,its a healing,we cannot compare a healing of the body with salvation by God Grace,this is the healing of sins.
Yes the words heal and save can be used as synonym .If by natural salvation you are referring to physical healing only its o.k. but if you are referring it to salvation by work you are wrong,because salvation by work is the devil false doctrine of tares.
The jehova wittness are in a false salvation because they dont believes that Jesus is God.This is another antichrist false heretic salvation (arianism)So false salvation is everywere in churches.

August 20, 2013 12:29 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Michel, in (Luke 18:42) was the blind man SAVED naturally or spiritually?
The Bible said that the blind man's NATURAL eyesight was SAVED.

Was his SALVATION accredited to the blind man?
Jesus said 'YOUR FAITH has SAVED THEE'.

(If a man does something for something, then it's called 'WORKS'.)

Please Michel, I like to hear it from your own lips;
1. Was the blind man SAVED? Yes or No.
2. Was the blind man's salvation spiritual or NATURAL?
3. Was the blind man saved by WORKS? Yes or No.

You said, "If by natural salvation you are referring to physical healing only its o.k ".

Everything which is physical is NATURAL and everything of the spirit is SPIRITUAL.
If SALVTION is natural, it concerns the natural and the physical, and if SALVATION is spiritual it concerns the spirit and is spiritual.
Spiritual SALVATION saves the spirit (John 3:3) etc. and is by GRACE alone.
Natural SALVATION saves the physical and circumstances in our lives and that is by WORKS, by believing, by faith, trust and also by action (deeds) (Luke 18:42). Faith without works is dead.

Again there is not such a thing as a FALSE SALVATION, either a person is saved or not saved. A person can not be falsely healed or falsely rescued or falsely born again.
Paul

August 20, 2013 7:34 PM   Edit
Blogger Michel Haineault said...

When a doctor heal is patient is he saving him? healing a body is not saving,but cured from a disease.
Salvation by works is the false salvation preached by catholics and the armianians,by saying that there is no false salvation it's like approving the arminians,with their false gospel of salvation by work.The curing of an organ of the body is not salvation by work,its the job of the surgeons.I completely disagree that there is no false salvation,this is a dangerous doctrine because you say that the armenians dont teach a false salvation,by saying that you approved armenians,with their devilish salvation by works.
There is only one gospel that saved,but there are lots of false gospels that conduct to hell.Armenians are antichrist,i will never approved their salvation by works that is againts the Sovereign God.When teaching an antichrist salvation by works is being like the devil(arminians)who
by night sows bad seeds(false gospel)False gospel is the seed of false salvation, the tares (falses christians) are the proofs of false salvation and false believers
Saying invite Jesus in your heart is a false salvation.
Come to Jesus to get your sins forgiven (false)
Be baptized for the remissions of sins (false)
repent and you will be saved (false)
these are some exemples of the false gospel that created false salvation.
The blind man was not believing in any falses gospels!He only want is eyes to be cure .
He believe in Jesus Christ,this is the right gospel,i dont see work but faith,he his cure not by work but by faith because he believe in Jesus not in his free will.

August 20, 2013 11:14 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Michel, you need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word the Bible and not in your pastor, church, creed, Calvin or Arminius.

Also you need to believe the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ our Lord and not a gospel according to your pastor, John Calvin or James Aminius.

In your comments I can see that you don't know what the GOSPEL is, and for that reason it makes nearly impossible to understand the Scriptures and my post.

It is important that you agree with the Scriptures and the Spirit of the Lord and not with men and there interpretation including your own.

You think that the gospel of John Calvin is the right gospel and the gospel of James Arminius is a false gospel. But it has escaped your notice that you think just like them, except John Calvin and James Arminius were a lot more knowledgeable in interpreting the Scriptures then you and I.

Also you think like most Christians that the gospel is a plane and a strategy always pertaining to salvation and everyone thinks that they are the ones with the right interpretation and strategy of the Scriptures to back up their misconception.
If you ask anybody, they always say, the gospel is salvation, or an explanation of salvation, or a strategy how to be saved.
The gospel is NOT a cleverly laid out theory about salvation, where only the knowledgeable and learned people can know and preach. The gospel is not a theory. The gospel is simple and easy! Even a child can proclaim and preach it.
The gospel is a person, His name is JESUS!
Example: The gospel of "God", is Jesus Christ who is the only true and Sovereign God etc. The gospel of "Creation", is Jesus who created all things, and nothing came into being apart from Him etc. It is totally up to you what scriptural passages you like to use. The gospel of "Salvation" is Jesus Christ and there is no other name given whereby you must be saved. Etc. again it’s totally up to you, how to portray Jesus in salvation. The gospel of "Redemption", the gospel of "The Kingdom of God" etc. again it is always Jesus Christ proclaimed.
This is the gospel which I preach.
Paul said, "the gospel which I Paul have become a servant. Col. 1:15-23", please read this passage and take note, everything points to Jesus. If we lift up Jesus, He will draw all men to Himself.

So let's look to the Scriptures;
By his will the blind man came to Jesus and believed and had faith that Jesus would save him from blindness, that is his natural physical blindness and not spiritual blindness.
Jesus said to the blind man that he was saved, so then he wasn't false saved.
Here you can see that it was a natural salvation who had absolutely nothing to do with being saved from a spiritually dead state to be born again to a spiritual life of the Spirit.
Was the blind man's salvation by works?
Yes it was by works!
If he would not have done something, he would not have been saved.
Paul

August 21, 2013 10:18 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Michel;
You said, "Saying invite Jesus in your heart is a false salvation."

I don't see that to be a salvation. It is a request from a person with obviously a limited knowledge of the ways of the Lord and the Scriptures, but it is better to say that than nothing, at least the sinner is confronted with the Name of the Lord.

You said, "Come to Jesus to get your sins forgiven, (false)".

I don't have a problem with that either, it's just a statement, and hopefully the sinners comes to Jesus so that their sins might be forgiven but that doesn't declare the sinners saved.
You said, "Be baptised for the remission of sins (false)."

That is also a request for the sinners to DO, it's also called WORKS. After all, it's the Word of God, (Acts 2:38) "Repent and each one of you be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remissions of sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
This is a promise and not a false salvation.
The Lord Jesus wants ALL to be saved, therefore He demands from everyone to believe, believe not and you shall be damned. The requirement from a sinner is to DO something in order to be saved, which is to repent and believe, and that is called WORKS!

However, there is an other side to salvation, a salvation which is only by GRACE and NOT by works lest any man should boast. That salvation is only for the elect, that is for God's children, for those who were in Christ before the foundation of the world. They were born spiritually dead and need to be born again unto a new life of the Spirit of God and that is not by the will of any man but only by the will of God, just as the Scriptures said, 'the dead (spiritually dead) shall hear His voice and those who hear shall live, are born again.
Paul

August 22, 2013 7:46 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Hi Paul,
welcome back. I have read your post twice and find that there are too many scriptures there to answer. If we put masses of scriptures together, to me it is like taking many different days in my life and speaking words that I may have spoken on those days all in one sentence to somebody. I believe we have to work out our salvation as in 'picking up our daily manna in the wilderness', not just being hearers of that word but doers of that word in order to have our minds renewed in Christ Jesus. I also believe that if we are sick we can receive physical healing from the Lord. Each one of us has a different walk with the Lord, even though we are one in Him. Twenty two years ago I asked the Lord to teach me about sickness and healing . I immediately began to be sick, and yet there is purpose in it, to share the power and might of the Lord Jesus and to encourage our total dependency upon Him, nothing else. He has kept me alive physically by His grace and has now said that He will heal me. If you care to read about these incidents they are in two posts on my Lighhthousevision blog:-Monday 10th June 2013 'Pure faith', and Monday 5th August 2013 'Be strong in Him and in the power of His might'. I also believe there is a difference in what Jesus spoke to those who were with Him while He was physically on this earth and what He speaks through the Holy Spirit after His crucifixion.

August 26, 2013 6:44 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Hi Brenda;
I'm glad to hear from you again.
Yes I should have used less Scriptures and I still would have got the point across, a point which is so easily overlooked and has caused such great division and debate among believers.

I also believe that we have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling just as the Scriptures said, but I hope that you don't believe that we can work out our salvation to be born again from the dead?

Being saved from sickness, which is also called healing is mostly conditional and depends upon our believing or faith in our master physician Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

You should not have asked the Lord to teach you about sickness and healing, remember what the Lord has said, 'anything you ask in My Name I will do for you.

Also I have read your two posts,'Pure faith' and 'Be strong in Him and in the power of His might'. Thank you for sharing your personal dealings in the Lord and the Word of the Lord.
Paul

August 26, 2013 10:45 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

No I felt right Paul asking the Lord to teach me about sickness and healing. Every day of our life is written in His book before even one of them was formed, He knew what I would do. Most of the churches do not teach what we are told to do if we are sick, they put their trust in faithless man. We are to have our minds renewed in Christ Jesus. There is no way we can achieve salvation through good works or the law but we are not to continue in sin, and we can not fight the battle without the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. The Lord takes us all through different tests, but it is all to glorify Him and His power to save is above all other powers.The gifts are given by God but they don't seem to be in the denominational churches of today. The Lord says 'Anything you will ask in my name I will do for you', and it is all to glorify the Father.'

August 27, 2013 3:04 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda, I appreciate your spiritual insight into the Word of God and your sensitivity to the Spirit of the Lord and also your many years of walking closely with the Lord.

Please tell me, doing something for something, is that called works?
Can a person be healed by doing nothing? By 'nothing' I mean absolutely nothing.

Yes I agree , "it is all to the glory of the Father", but please tell me, to the glory of which Father? And please tell me His Name?
Paul

August 27, 2013 9:46 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

All I know Paul is that I have had a miraculous healing and was shown by the Lord that it was the prayer of faith. I have had other healings and each tells a story. Because the Lord has told me that He will heal me I believe Him above all the thoughts that might try to come into my mind, thoughts that my carnal mind has been taught by mans' wisdom. I have always been shown that every thought must be taken captive and brought into obedience to Christ. I am not sure what you mean by 'doing something for something, is that works?' You would have to relate it to a scripture for me Paul to be able to answer you. The Father has many names including 'Yahweh saves' as in 'Jesus', God is spirit, Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus said in John chl0 v.30 that He and the Father are one. They can not be separated.

August 27, 2013 10:41 PM   Edit
Blogger Steve Finnell said...

VAIN ATTEMPTS TO DISCREDIT GOD'S WORD ABOUT SALVATION

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (NKJV)

Critics claim that since Jesus did not say he who is not baptized will be condemned; therefore water baptism is not essential to be saved. If a heart surgeon told you that if you have a heart transplant you will live; he would not have to explain to you that if you refuse the heart transplant you will die. Negatives are understood. If the electric power company informs you if you pay your bill the power will be turned back on; you do not have to be informed that if you do not pay your overdue bill the power will not be restored. Negatives are understood.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(NKJV)

The apostle Peter did not have to say unless you repent and are baptized your sins will not be forgiven. Negatives are understood.


YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY CHRISTIAN BLOG. Bing search>>>> steve finnell a christian view

August 31, 2013 11:34 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

I'm sorry Brenda for my late comment but I have some problem with the Network connection.

Yes, the prayer of faith achieves much, in fact without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebr.11:6), and whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom. 14:23). In these two verses we can see that faith is doing something which is called works. If we put our faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and command the mulberry bush to pick itself up on the roots and plant itself in the sea, it will obey our command.

Brenda, the Father hasn't got many names as you suggest. Yahweh is a man made name and not found in the Scriptures just the same as the name Jehovah who is invented by people who don't know God.
If you would like to know the Fathers name please read (John 17:11 NIV).
You said, that Jesus and the Father are one and they can not be separated.
Are you saying that those two identities are like Siamese twins, except inseparable?

Remember, I once said to you, that you need to sort out that problem. More then a one person God is the transgression of the first commandment.
In some of your prayers you pray to one person through another person called Jesus, or you thank one person called the Father that he sent another person called Jesus.
Brenda, this is a serious problem and I think you need to deal with that soon or later, preferable sooner.
Kind regards
Paul

September 01, 2013 7:06 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Hi Steve, I appreciate your comment.
Numerous times during the last two years I have commented on your blog but you have not posted some of my comments for various reasons and I know why.

It is obvious that you believe in a salvation which is by works just as I do which is in accordance with the Scriptures (see my post), but you ignore the salvation which is by grace alone with no works lest any man may boast (see my post 'second side of salvation').

By now a man of God of your caliber ought to know and understand that GRACE can not be amalgamated (mingled) with WORKS (deeds).

WORKS is that which you DO! Or that which is of you, and that which you have earned.
Water-baptism is that which you DO, and is WORKS!
GRACE is the opposite to the above, grace is the unmerited favour of the Lord to SAVE only the elected few from eternal death unto eternal life, to be born again. That grace excludes water-baptism, faith, believe, trust and whatever else.

Brother Steve, It seems to me that you think that I or we do not believe the Scriptures Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38, but let it be known to you that I fully believe and understand those passages. If you care, please read my post again, and feel free to ask me any question.

September 01, 2013 7:10 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul, it is Jesus who speaks about the Father in so many scriptures but you appear to only pick out the scriptures that fit in with the denomination that you appear to support and ignore the rest, as many other denominations do. As far as works are concerned I cannot ignore scripture in the Bible like Ephesians ch.2 v.10 when it is highlighted to me. It goes together with instruction from the Holy Spirit as to what I am to do. I want to be spoken to by the Lord, not by a person belonging to a denomination which was formed a few hundred years ago as far as working out my salvation is concerned, otherwise I am going my own way. I do believe however that I am responsible only to God and what He says to me.

September 02, 2013 12:11 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Yes Brenda, Jesus speaks about the Father and that is for your sake and for my sake. Jesus does not have a father just as the Scriptures said (Hebr.7:3), that is because Jesus is our Heavenly Father, Jesus said "I and the Father are ONE"! Consequently Jesus and the Father are not TWO identities as you suggest.
If God is two identities, that would be called 'the gods' and we do not believe in the gods but only in one God Jesus Christ of Nazareth, He said, "You are my witnesses" declares the Lord "and my servants whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior." (Isa.43:10-11).

Brenda, I do not belong to any denomination, church or whatever, I belong to the Lord Jesus Christ who has bought me with His blood and I am an ambassador of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom.

Yes I know that you want be spoken to by the Lord, but He already has spoken to you and you don't like to hear what He has to say. It's better to be spoken to you by a brother who highly esteems you than by a donkey like in Balaams case.

No Brenda, you are not only responsible to God, you are also responsible to your brothers and sisters in Christ for they keep watch over your soul as it is fitting in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Paul

September 02, 2013 11:02 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
if you look in one of my previous comments you will see that I also agree that Jesus said 'I and the Father are one'. The first four verses of John 1 states ' In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.' I cannot argue with scripture, it is the only plumb line that can be used to find the truth. Yes we are responsible to one another and we must build one another up, but we all have to admit that all are being taught by God through the Holy Spirit, and all includes yourself as well as myself and others Paul.

September 03, 2013 6:18 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda,
I know that you agree that Jesus said, 'I and the Father are one'. But you think that the Lord Jesus and the Father are two individuals who are one God, therefore you pray to this unknown God called the Father through another God called Jesus.
Most Christians use (John chapter 1) to justify their position that God is two, and say that the Word is Jesus who was with this other God called the Father in the beginning.
Brenda, you need to guard your heart against all those satanic deceptions who try to deceive you so that you transgress the first and foremost of all the commandments, transgressing that commandment makes you guilty of all other commandments (James 2:10), and for that reason numerous Christians suffer the consequences thereof. To justify yourself with many Scriptures does not nullify that transgression.

In the Scriptures are primary statements and secondary statements and you should never override a primary with a secondary statement even if they appear to say the contrary.
Example;
(Mark 12:29) "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one". This is a primary statement!
(John 1:1 and John 17 and Matthew 3:16-17) and many more are secondary statements and explanations and they do not nullify or override the primary statement of Mark 12:29, they convey to us spiritual realities of the majesty of this 'primary ONE GOD' whom I and we proclaim to be Jesus Christ our only Lord and God forever praised.
Paul

September 04, 2013 8:04 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

I can not argue with scripture Paul. I believe absolutely that when we are brought out of the world (Egypt), and we have been baptised in the Holy Spirit, then we have to pick up our daily 'manna' (the word of God) from the Bible on our way to the promised land (everlasting life). Yes, we can be built up by one another, all of us, but if it goes against what has been placed in our lives, as in my father saying 'Let's see what the Lord says', then there is only One voice that I am going to listen to. The question 'Did God say?' is still being spoken by the enemy to those who are part of the body of the second Adam.
Brenda

September 04, 2013 9:14 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

I'm not trying to get you to argue with Scriptures, to the contrary I am trying to get you to agree with the Scriptures.

Yes our enemy still speaks to us and says, 'Did God really say that the Lord our God is one?' and continually he says, 'surely there is no harm to believe that God is two or three persons, even Jesus spoke about his Father and even prayed to his Father.'

Brenda, this is the biggest lie Satan has ever produced, with this lie he has deceived millions of Christians even you the elect. This lie is even worse than you think, it effects most of your other Bible teachings (doctrines) which you have received and believe. One of those doctrines is that you believe that 'we are on the way to the promised land (everlasting life)' as you have said.
No Brenda! we are already in the promised land, we are not on the way as you suggest, but that would be another topic, first you need to sort out this most corrosive belief and teaching that God is two or three persons or individuals.
This is not complicated but very simple.
Concerning God, every passage where it says GOD,LORD, FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT always reveres to the Lord Jesus Christ. He alone is the personification of God (one person to be God, Jesus Christ).
If there is any teaching or thought contrary to that, it is satanic in its origin.
Yes there are some passages in the Bible who indicate or apparently make out God to be more than one, but there is the challenge for us who are in Christ to rightly divide the Word of truth from error and show ourself approved by the Lord.
It is your duty just as it is mine to preach Jesus Christ as the only God and Him crucified.
Paul

September 06, 2013 9:47 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

September 06, 2013 9:47 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
After my death experience, and the place where I was taken to, I cannot say that I am in the promised land. 1 Corinthians ch 2 vs. 1-14 say all that I have to say really regarding this issue.
And I, brethren, when I came to you declaring unto you the testimony of God, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not stand on the wisdom of man, but on the power of God.
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are perfect, yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, who are coming to nought.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world for our glory —
8 wisdom which none of the princes of this world knew; for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.
9 But as it is written: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.”
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so no man knoweth the things of God, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
13 These things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

September 07, 2013 10:43 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
as for what you say as in 'Yes our enemy still speaks to us and says, 'Did God really say that the Lord our God is one?' and continually he says, 'surely there is no harm to believe that God is two or three persons, even Jesus spoke about his Father and even prayed to his Father.' No those are not the words that the enemy speaks, it is simply 'Did God say?' as in questioning what has actually been spoken to me personally through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. We are all different and can only respond to what we are called to do by the Holy Spirit, not what another person is calling us to do.

September 08, 2013 12:45 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda, I'm glad that the Lord Jesus had mercy on you and on all of us not to let you die, you have an excellent ministry by which we all profit and are encouraged in the Lord, and I would like to be one of those who says to you, well done Brenda!

However, there is still a little splinter in your eye.

When you say "Father I thank You for Jesus" all your readers will assume and believe just as you do, that you give thanks to this unknown God whom you call 'Father' (whoever he might be) for this person called 'Jesus'.

If this unknown God whom you call 'Father' is God, then by necessity Jesus is NOT the Lord God the Almighty.
The consequences for that are unthinkable (John 8:24 and John 8:19).

If you think and believe that this unknown God whom you call Father is 'God' and the Lord Jesus Christ is also 'God', then you believe in two gods and have transgressed the first and foremost of all the commandments.
The consequences to that are also unthinkable (Exodus 20:5).

If you proclaim, preach, teach and confess multiple gods or another god next of the only one true God Jesus Christ our Lord (1 John 5:20 and Jude 1:25), that too would be unthinkable because you know that those who teach such things stand under stricter judgement then those who don't teach.

Therefore the only way left is to repent, that is before the Lord and also before men. Yes I know the word 'repent' is a dirty word even among Christian people to day and no one really likes that word because it needs a contrite heart before the Lord and men. But repentance leads to righteousness and righteousness to salvation to all of us who believe in Jesus Christ our wonderful Lord and saviour.
Remember (Revelation 3:19) "Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent."

September 08, 2013 4:25 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
'Father I thank You for Jesus' is a blog for people who do not know Jesus. The things of God are foolishness to those who do not know Him,whose wisdom is based on the carnal mind. In that beautiful place I was in I was told 'It's not time yet, you must go back'. I did not want to come back even though I had been married ten years, but I knew that there was no choice. My twenty eight years of life was like the dream and that place was reality. When I became born again it was as if I was being spoken to when I read Jeremiah ch.1 v.5 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,...'. When I read 2 Corinthians ch 12 vs. 2-4 'I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.' I connected with it because this describes exactly what happened to me in my 'death experience'.

September 08, 2013 8:00 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

If that blog is for people who don't know Jesus, then you should be double mindful to demonstrate the Lord Jesus Christ as the only one true God (1 John 5:20) and that beside Jesus Christ is no other god or god-person (Isa. 43:10).

How can they believe if the message is not clear?
In whom do they believe if two god-persons are taught and proclaimed?

Brenda, in this matter we should not be careless, but mindful of every word we speak. The doctrine of God is the most important doctrine of the entire Bible and no one should err on that. If we think and believe that there are two or three god-persons who together are one God, then we are in serious conflict with the only true God Jesus Christ and His Word the Bible.
If a new convert is hearing you praying and teaching like that, he automatically starts of with a false premise, he does not and can not trust in the Lord Jesus Christ because he always thinks that there is another person who is a greater God than the Lord Jesus Christ. And after a while he or she will justify their misconception by quoting the Scriptures and saying that Jesus Himself said, "the Father is greater then I (John 14:28)".
Brenda, perhaps you can see the importance to deal with that problem.

September 09, 2013 8:31 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Like I said before Paul,
I go by scripture not what another person tells me that does not line up with scripture or has words taken out. It is for you to do what you believe you have to do, and for me and all others to do what they believe they have to do. God is the judge.

September 10, 2013 2:37 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda, I don't think that everyone should do what they believe they have to do, nor believe whatever they want to believe.
Those of us who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ should believe in Him and submit to the teaching of the Apostles and the Scriptures and be in unity in the faith so that we all come to maturity and do the will of the Lord which we all are so eager to do.

We are the body of Christ and are not independent from one another so that we can believe whatever we want to believe and teach and preach whatever we like. Everything needs to be tested against the Scriptures and against our brothers ans sisters in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Brenda, the yoke of the Lord Jesus is easy and His burden is light, He is mindful of all our weaknesses and strength and does not break a bent reed. If we lack anything or need to know anything then we should ask the Lord Jesus. If you ask Him for a loaf of bread, He will not give you a stone, therefore ask the Lord Jesus to give you understanding and insight concerning this very important matter.
The same God who speaks to me, is also speaking to you.
Has He who made mouth, can He not speak?
Paul

September 10, 2013 11:26 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
This is the first comment that you have made to which I can say is very scriptural and with which I possibly totally agree. These are the bits in your comment that I don't find scriptural. 'Brenda, I don't think that everyone should do what they believe they have to do, nor believe whatever they want to believe.' and 'so that we can believe whatever we want to believe and teach and preach whatever we like.', and neither do I believe that I have ever said this or implied this in any of my comments on your blog. We have to be what God has called us to be.

September 11, 2013 2:20 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda, You know what I am saying, my language is not complicated.

I ought to speak the the word of the the Lord to you (1 Peter 4:11) and if anyone (including me) does not speak according to the Scriptures, it is because there is no light in them (Isa. 8:20).
Paul

September 12, 2013 10:30 AM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
I totally agree with 1 Peter ch.4 v.11 which says 'If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.', and I also agree with what the whole of Isaiah ch. 8 says. That is what I endeavour to do in my walk with the Lord.

September 12, 2013 6:39 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Yes Brenda, I know that you walk closely with our Lord and do what He wants you to do. I can read that in all of your posts and poems, but you still need to deal with that problem, that is for your sake and for your readers.
Perhaps in your own time.
Paul

September 13, 2013 10:23 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

I trust the Lord to deal with all my problems Paul, but as I have said many times before I have to go by the Word of God in my life and not by the doctrine of any denomination that does not line up with scripture.
Take care as you work out your salvation Paul. I still enjoy our interaction and discussions.

September 13, 2013 11:57 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

I'm sure He will Brenda.

As you know we all came out of Egypt (spiritually speaking) and a lot of Egypt's dross is still attached to all of us. But our Lord is good and He will wash us clean so that we are as white as snow. Therefore there is no condemnation for all of us who believe in Jesus Christ our Lord.

OK then;
Point 1. Please Brenda, tell me plainly and simply in how many God-persons do you believe?

September 14, 2013 10:23 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Just as many as the Bible tells us there is Paul. We must look there for our answers. As I have mentioned before, a key to this is 'In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.' Verse 14 of this chapter is a beautiful verse. 'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.' It all makes sense to the mind renewed in Christ Jesus, but to the carnal mind it is confusion.

September 15, 2013 2:19 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Since we have received a spirit of power, love and a sound mind. Therefore I'm very good to count the gods, especially if they only add up to about three or four.

Point 1. But I like you to say in how many in how many God-persons do you believe?

September 15, 2013 7:18 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

It does not mention the words 'God persons' in the Bible, it mentions in John ch.4 v.24 that 'God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.'
John ch. 3 v.16 - 18 states 'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.' How can I or anybody else add to that. I don't mean to sound offensive but I suspect that you may not be born again of God's Holy Spirit Paul for you to talk the way you do.

September 16, 2013 1:39 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda, I didn't ask you to add or take away, but simply to answer Point 1. In how many God-persons do you believe?

This is not a trick question. I'm aiming to cut this doctrine at its roots. If we only solve a few Bible passages and have not dealt with its roots, it will grow back, but more vigorous than before.
Perhaps you can see the importance that we have to deal with those roots. Therefore please answer Point 1. In how many God-persons do you believe?

September 16, 2013 10:39 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

I can only answer you as I have in my previous response Paul, but you don't appear to be listening. The power is in God Himself who is the Spirit, otherwise I would be as one who is, as 2 Timothy ch.3 v.5 says 'Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:'

September 16, 2013 11:46 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul, John ch.1 vs 12 and 13 states regarding Jesus. 'Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.' Romans ch. * v.29 states 'For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.' We had the wrong spirit in us and could not have everlasting life with that spirit, that is why Jesus was born of a woman but the insemination had to be through Gods' Spirit. At the moment He is the head, we who have been baptized into Him are His body. Jesus said 'Today and tomorrow I do cures, the third day I shall be perfected.' (speaking on the terms of one day is as a thousand years with God). That is exactly what He is doing. If we trust in the teaching of the Holy Spirit which was sent as a helper by the Lord, and act on the word spoken to us, not just be hearers of it, then we shall be one with Him and the Father - just as He said we would be.

September 17, 2013 12:31 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

You sound like a politician Brenda :-)
They too will always avoid to answer simple and obvious questions.

All religions and cults can easily tell you in how many god-persons they believe and they can even give you their names, a thing which is unheard in the Christian Churches.

Alarmingly the so called Christians are the only ones who can't answer Point 1. or should I say that they don't like to be exposed of their ignorance concerning God.

Brenda, is it that you don't know God and therefore you can't answer the question Point 1.?
Or is it that you have a confusion and can not say for sure how many God-persons there are?
Or worst of all, that you know God and are ashamed of His Name?

Well Brenda, you need to face those possibilities square on, and it is better now then on judgement-Day.
So please, the question still stands Point 1. In how many God-persons do you believe?

September 17, 2013 8:50 PM   Edit
Blogger Brenda said...

Paul,
I have told you there is not the term 'god persons in the Bible.' As much as I did enjoy this conversation I now am finding it very one sided and to be honest with you quite boring, and I don't mean to be insulting there. I think the best thing we can both do is carry on doing what we believe God is asking us to do and leave Him to be the judge. I think we will always have differences because as I have told you before I cannot accept a doctrine from a Puritain denomination or any other denomination. I love my life in the Lord and will carry on doing the work He requires of me.

September 17, 2013 10:53 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Brenda, I did not ask you about Bible terminologies or anything of the Bible yet.

It makes no difference whether I say 'God-person or God-identities or Gods'.

Is the Father a God-person or not? Is the Son another God-person or what? Is the Holy Spirit a person or not? and is he also 'God' or a God? And do all those three persons, identities or whatever make up one God?

I have asked about what do YOU believe. Point 1. does not deal with Scriptures, but with your personal belief, it is your personal belief that is in question and not the Scriptures.
You can not build a house without first establishing its foundation, just as we can not go to Point 2. till you first answer the question Point 1.
The doctrine of God which you have received is from the Catholic church-denomination, they were the first ones who cooked up a god who is multiple persons in one God.

Brenda, no intelligent person saved or unsaved will accept your testimony without you first telling them in which God you believe and His Name.
You need to give to each one who ask a reasonable answer for the hope that is in you, by that I mean an answer with reason.

September 18, 2013 10:46 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

If the Son (Jesus) is a person, then by necessity the Father must also be a person. One person the Father and another person the Son equals TWO persons and if both are God (Deity), then there are TWO gods. If those two persons are one God, then each person is only a half a god.

If you are praying to the Father through another person called Jesus, then you believe in TWO gods.
If you give thanks to the Father for giving us his only Son Jesus, then you have a serious confusion and you don't know the only one true God.
Brenda, you need to work on this doctrine and you should not sweep it under the carpet but bring it to the light.
Yes! I am an ambassador of Jesus Christ the ONLY true God and His Kingdom. As an ambassador I ought to know everything about the one I represent the only true God and so should you.

If you are not willing to answer my Question (Point 1.) then I will answer it.
Point 1. In how many God-persons do I believe?
I believe in only ONE person to be God and that person is the Lord Jesus Christ. He ALONE is the only person which is the Lord God the Almighty the creator of heaven and earth, He alone is the alpha and omega, the first and the last, He alone is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and beside the person of Jesus Christ there was NO god formed nor shall there be one after Him.
Hmm! That wasn't difficult. Yes, I also can explain that from Genesis to Revelation in every detail.

I personally expect such a statement or similar from every confessing Christian and it troubles me immensely that most modern Christians are unable to do so.
Paul

September 19, 2013 10:17 PM   Edit
Blogger elderchild said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 15, 2013 2:26 AM   Edit
Blogger elderchild said...

i have bore witness unto "the great things Our Father and GOD has done" @

http://asimpleandspirituallife.blogspot.com/2013/07/miracles-faith-receiving-love-of-truth.html

Father Help! and HE does.......

November 15, 2013 2:28 AM   Edit
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