Puritan Belief

The Puritans are the men of God who started in the 16th century building on the purity of the gospel message that Salvation is by Grace alone.

True or False Gospel Tracts

Perhaps the most popular tract handed out can be pictured below. But is it the true gospel?



Add Your Comment(43)

True or False Gospel Tracts
Posted by Correy Edmed Tuesday, October 24, 2006

43 Comments:

Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

Part 2 is cirtainly true, There is indeed only one remedy to our separation from God. It is indeed the life, death and reasurection of Christ purchasing salvation.

Romans 9: 14-16 and 2 Timothy 1:8-10
(among many other passages) make it fairly clear that salvation is not a result of choice, but of Grace.

The sheep and the goats are separated because they are in fact sheep and goats, not because they wanted or chose to be either.

MDM

October 25, 2006 6:45 AM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

On previous posts I have said, that all Trinitarians and Trinitarian churches preach another Jesus and another spirit and another gospel.
PBs Illustrations is a typical example of that false gospel witch is preached in all churches universal.
In the Illustration you can see a big chasm, who divides the two kingdoms, ‘heaven—hell, God the world, saved—lost etc. etc. and a cross in the middle.
Now tell me, what did those on the right do, to be on the right side???
If those on the left would have done the same thing as those on the right, they also would be on the right side.
If those on the left do nothing, they will never be on the right side.
If those on the right would have done nothing, they still would be on the left side.
So you can see clearly, that all Trinitarians preach and teach a salvation gospel which is by works and not by grace. (Grace to them is only a cliché.)
They preach a false gospel, a SMORGESBORD gospel, where Jesus came into this world to make a bridge, so that they can walk across as they please. If they walk across, they are saved, if not they perish.
They preach and address this false gospel to the will of men and not the will of God.
They say! “What a marvelous provision God has made.”
Or! “God has done it all, now it’s up to you!”
Meaning that God has made a way or a bridge (picture) for you to save yourselves. Or Jesus has done it all! He died on the cross for every person in the whole world, and now it’s up to you! to believe it, or receive it etc. etc.
And so they preach Jesus to be a salvation provider, and not a mighty savior.
Example:
God provided a big SMORGESBORD table, so that everyone who will can go and help themselves for salvation.
This is called a ‘FALSE gospel‘ in fact they do not know the gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord.
All Trinitarians, you greatly err not knowing the truth, nor do you know the power of God.

October 25, 2006 10:05 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

Paul G:

what do you think of james 2:17 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. Im gathering you know this verse well

you asked :

Now tell me, what did those on the right do, to be on the right side???

I'll tell you. They had faith. They didnt first do right and were saved. they first believed and were saved. Good works follow effortlessly as faith and Grace produce right living.

Heb 10:
38But my righteous one will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him." But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

Rom 9:30

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness (- talking about by the law here-), have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

October 25, 2006 1:23 PM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

the tract on this post does not put jesus to the highest position, but puts the image in your head that you have to jump over the cross to get to God. Grace and eternal life is not illuminated as a free gift for those who will believe, trust in and rely on Jesus.

October 25, 2006 1:35 PM   Edit
Blogger susanlprince said...

I understand the illustration on these tracts, and always have, but something has always bothered me.

We don't walk toward God, HE PURSUES US, thus, the cross. The image of the person walking across to God seems a bit incomplete to me, when it is God reaching toward us.

October 26, 2006 12:27 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Allfourlove:
The question was, “what did those on the right DO, to be on the right side?”
Not what they had, whether they had faith, or a belief in God, a doctrine, a creed, etc. etc. All that doesn’t matter!
Only, what did they DO?
If grace is mingled with works, grace is no longer grace.
I say the same as James! If you are saying that you are by faith on the right side. Then show me your faith by your works. If you only say you have faith, and there is no works, then your faith is useless.
I speak to everyone who reads this post.
Question:
Do you speak in unknown tongues?
Do you interpret tongues?
Do you prophecy?
Do you have a word of knowledge?
Do you cast out demons?
Do you lay on hands on the sick, and they are healed?
Do you perform miracles?
Or does anything supernatural happen in your lives or in your churches?
Or do you cook up clever doctrines to hide your unbelief?
If there are no signs, then you have to question the gospel which you are preaching.
The Bible says that signs and wonders shall follow the preaching of the gospel.
Where are the signs and wonders??
Where is the power and demonstration of the Spirit?
If you are saying you believe in God, show me your works! Perhaps you believe in a false god, a false Jesus, Spirit and gospel. Because of this the churches are impotent and dead, some have a reputation that they are alive because they turn up the volume of their amplifiers, and have a number of dancing girls at the front. But I tell you they are dead, (spiritually dead in there sins and trespasses.) That is because they do not preach the Lord Jesus Christ of the bible, they preach the Siamese triplet god, (the trinity) and with all the lies attached.

All4love:
Faith does not precede salvation.
First salvation, then faith, then belief and works.
The question remains to everyone!
What did those on the right DO, to be on the right side??
What must those on the left DO, to be also on the right side??

October 27, 2006 8:48 AM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

Faith does not get you across the bridge nor does belief.

A sinner can cook up as much belief and faith as they can muster and still be dead in their sins.

There is absolutely nothing you can do to become a christian.

Why I hate these tracts even more is that Jesus is simply a path we take to get to the real God. There is no supremacy in Christ in these tracts.

October 27, 2006 9:38 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

paul,

you said faith is something we have not something we do. i disagree. Faith is an action.

you asked:If you are saying you believe in God, show me your works?

well i lay hands on the sick and they are healed...i have words of knowledge...the church group im apart of has seen countless miracles of people healed from all sorts of diseases...my youth leader has healed criples from wheelchairs and a lady received her sight... not that we do all this in our own strength, but it is the power of God working in us.

I ask you and everyone : can people see and feel your love for them and one another? By this all men will know that you are christs diciples.

1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Love is a complete gift...christ has poured out his love into our hearts through the holy spirit which he has given us...rom 5:5

Do you love? Do you forgive as easily as you breath?

paul and PB, faith doesnt save you. But it is the medium by which salvation comes.

im sure you like to use the analogy where there is a boy drowning and the rescue team are trying to save him but he refuses...what does the rescue team do? Do they go away because he refused? No, they knock him out and save him.

I dont like this in the sense that they knocked him out...wouldnt it be better to say they filled him with faith to believe ?

PB you said : 'A sinner can cook up as much belief and faith as they can muster and still be dead in their sins.'

I dont see how someone who fixes their eyes on jesus, the author and perfector of their faith and beleives him for their salvation and see the results out working in their lives can still be dead in their sins...Faith is not a passive force. :)

October 27, 2006 2:21 PM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

paul g,

To all of your own questions, Do you?

I do not at all see a link between the doctorines of the Trinity vs Oneness / Modalism and Calvinism vs Arminianism.

Are you trying to use the weight of the arguement for a sovereign God to support your flimsy anti-trinitarian view?

One does not affect or rely on the other. Doctorines must be founded and built on the Word of God, not on a domino effect.

The majority of 'Reformed' churches which preach Election also hold the Trinity as true. Scripture is clear about salvation, it is the Work of God alone, not the will or effort of man. Scripture is also clear about the trinity as you will see if you re-read the last several posts here and all the subsequent comments.

MDM

October 27, 2006 8:42 PM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

Paul g,

signs and wonders do not prove the validity of any doctorine or gospel. The Bible warns of fals prophets who will perform signs and wonders to decieve even the elect, if possible.

The truth of a gospel must be measured agaist the Word.

MDM

October 27, 2006 8:45 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Puritan belief:
I fully agree with you, this gospel tracks are a lie!

Allforlove:
I was not aiming directly at you, but rather to the lost sheep of Israel. Like I said, the sheep of the Lord Jesus will hear His voice.
I like your reasoning and especially your testimony about the power of God in your life. This is very encouraging to hear, and I like to hear more of the power of God in the believer’s lives.
All4love, faith is NOT an action!
Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of the unseen, which has been given to every believer, after the new birth as a free gift by the Lord Jesus.
It is very important, not to put the cart in front of the horse, or you end up in a confusion and error.
First a person must be born again, then that experientially born again person is complete in Christ Jesus, and nothing is lacking, (I mean in completeness.)
The sound of the trumpet must be clear!
Or the preacher of the gospel must know the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and then his message will also be clear.
Because a false gospel is preached, that’s why we have confusion among the Christians.
If that which is preached is a false gospel, then what is the TRUE GOSPEL??
Anybody, feel free to comment.

October 28, 2006 1:09 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Modern day magi:
Catholics measure their doctrines against the word of God.
Protestants measure their doctrines against the word of God.
Jehovah Witnesses measure their doctrines against the word of God.
Every cult, and Armenians and Calvinists alike, and all disagree in most doctrines.
If you have received the Spirit of God, it would be better for you to judge by the Spirit of God between right and wrong.

To have a doctrine or a gospel without signs and wonders is like a tree with no fruit. And you know what Jesus did to the tree, when He did not find any fruit.

October 28, 2006 1:14 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Modern day magi:
To me, the Trinitarian view,
‘GOD is THREE persons, yet HE is ONE.’
Sound’s like the Emperor walking naked down the road, the little girl said, “look mummy the Emperor does not wear any clothes!” the mother, “shut up, he does wear clothes, you just can’t see it.”

Jesus said, I praise thee O Father that thou hast hidden these things from the wise magi, and given it to babes.

October 28, 2006 8:51 PM   Edit
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting.

You emphasize the spiritual gifts. These absolutely continue today as certainly as the other promises of scripture. (as many Christian (ie, Trinitarian) Churches can attest)

Why do you not also emphasize the FRUIT of the Spirit, and especially love?

The Bible has made it clear that the former can (and will) be faked, but the latter are the true test of authenticity.

Why do you put your emphasis on the weaker (that is to say, falsifiable) evidence?

Have you any confidence in the word of God whatsoever?

October 29, 2006 10:41 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

paul...just so i understand what faith is... you said :

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of the unseen, which has been given to every believer, AFTER the new birth as a free gift by the Lord Jesus.

you also said: First salvation, then faith, then belief and works.


Was abraham approved of as righteous before he believed? or after he believed?

here you say that we recieve faith after we are saved...how then can abraham be the father of our faith as it says in romans 4?

This is my view :
First the promise of God...then faith in that promise, then salvation, then works.

October 29, 2006 4:56 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

Anonymous
Muslims, Buddhists, and those who hold Catholic doctrine all emphasise love but are going to Hell.

You are right you can fake things such as healing the cripple, giving sight to the blind and the Lord will say he never knew you.

However I think you can fake love as well.

So I ask you what makes the love you are speaking about true and not faked.

Hint: Believing in a God who has a universal love such as this tract promotes will give you false love, a false answer and a false God.

October 30, 2006 8:52 AM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

Paul g,

since you did not answer my question, I will assume your answer is no.
_________________________________

PB and Paul g,

perhaps you should re-read Matthew 7:15-23 and Galatians 5:21-23 and reconsider your position that signs and wonders are the fruit by which a preacher of the Gospel is known.

Many will say to Jesus "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" yet they will still be turned away. Recognised not by their miraculous signs but by the Fruit of the Spirit or lack there of displayed in their lives.
__________________________

Another question:
You are both quick to label a fase Gospel, but how would you succinctly state the True Gospel?

MDM

October 30, 2006 2:13 PM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

for the record I have been blessed to have been present on many occasions of healing and prophesey and words of knowledge, tongues (not counting the gibberish or 'prayer language' often heard during prayer and worship in pentocostal churches) and the interpretation of tongues etc.

I have also been blessed to heve been used by God as a vessel for some of these miracles. Nothing as dramatic as a dead person coming to life but miracles none the less.

When we place too much emphasis on miraculous signs and wonders we lose sight that the greatest miracle of all is a Spiritual Birth and the gift of a new and blameless heart. Purchased by the life, death and ressurection of Jesus Chirst, the Lord and God of all.

MDM

October 30, 2006 2:20 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Allforlove:
Your view:
‘First the promise of God then faith in that promise then salvation, then works.’
This doctrine has been preached in all churches universal right back to Rome, the mother of deception!
This doctrine will lead you ALLWAYS to salvation by works.
With every child of God, FIRST comes salvation by grace, then all the dealings of the Lord in their lives, as it pleases Him and when it pleases Him.
About Abraham!
This was NOT Abrahams salvation, it was the Lord’s dealing with faith and belief in Abraham’s life. Abraham got saved way back in Ur of the Chaldeans.

October 30, 2006 7:52 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

To everyone.
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel etc. etc.
What gospel do you preach the true gospel or the false gospel??
How can you preach the true gospel, if you agree with the false gospel as in PB’s illustration on salvation, where the people on the left have to DO something, to be on the right side?
The Bible says,
That no man should boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, etc. etc. 1Cor.1:29+30
There is none righteous, not even one:
There is none who understands.
There is none who seeks for God.
All have turned aside, together they have become useless.
There is none who does good, there is not even one. Rom.3:10-12
All those on the left, are haters of God, lovers of self and lovers of pleasures 2Tim. 3
Why would those on the left who are in the kingdom of darkness, go into the kingdom of light on the right, when they can hide their sins in the kingdom of darkness?
The question remains.
What gospel do you preach??

October 30, 2006 8:00 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

Allforlove:
Faith will not get you born again or cause you to go from darkness into light nor will belief. Let me illistrate from what is meant to be a free will chapter "For God so loved the world" in John 3:

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

No matter how much of a promise they have or belief or faith they can not come to the light for fear of their deeds. Their own wickedness will never let them come to the light.

"whoever lives by the truth comes into the light,"

Now when our evil deeds are taken away by the saving work of Jesus. This is when we are born again and taken from darkness into light. We live by the truth for we have the truth namely Jesus and this is where our faith comes from because we are now in the light namely in Christ.

Faith or belief can not come before Salvation.

The Romans 4 verses about Abrham have this context:

"Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace "

Hence Grace is the cause. In other words we have to thank the Grace of Jesus for our Faith.

November 01, 2006 10:54 AM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

paul, you said : Abraham got saved way back in Ur of the Chaldeans
... im guessing this was where abraham was born.

Question:
If i am saved, but havent come to be born again, do i perish with all the other sinners?

PB: maybe faith doesnt come before or after salvation, but at salvation.

you said:Hence Grace is the cause. In other words we have to thank the Grace of Jesus for our Faith.

i agree ( see boy drowning analogy...about 2 posts ago )

you said: No matter how much of a promise they have or belief or faith they can not come to the light for fear of their deeds. Their own wickedness will never let them come to the light.

what faith do they have?

Do you think belief and faith are the same?

November 01, 2006 7:45 PM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

hey PB, If you had to counter act that tract with your own, keeping layout similar and short, what would it look like? :)

November 01, 2006 7:58 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

Allforlove
Salvation to me is the moment Jesus took me from darkness into his marvelous light. It was not my physical birth but my spiritual one.

It is true that God sets us apart from birth so that he would reveal His Son in us. The way I see it is that it is an impossibility for a Christian to die until they are saved. I have heard stories of near death experiences of Christians before they were born again but they couldn't die for God had set them apart for salvation.

The faith that man has before Grace all amounts to naught for they are dead in sin.

To change this tract so that it spoke the truth it would have to illustrate that Jesus is a mighty savior who will take you against your will and bring you into his Presence for He is the Holy God on the other side. There is no other hope for the sinner

November 01, 2006 10:23 PM   Edit
Blogger elessi said...

Reading this blog is a lot like being out in the cold looking through a window at lots of people safe and warm inside and knowing you can never get in.

November 01, 2006 11:56 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

Why do you think you can never get in elessi?

November 02, 2006 7:27 AM   Edit
Blogger mS eLoVe said...

Wow! Its been a while. Lot of actions going on your blog PB, how are you? Nice visiting your blog again PB.

Paul g,

I like your question. "what gospel do you preach?" I guess this is the area where the differences are when it comes to gospel.

Another question though, are you carrying the true gospel? as Paul asked "what is the true gospel?

And also, is it essential to use our own philosophical ideas in preaching the gospel?

November 02, 2006 8:08 AM   Edit
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Takes him against his will?

When I came to saving faith, it is because He revealed Himself to me, and He PERFECTED my will. He made "what was" repugnant to me, and demonstrated Himself as Magestic, the risen Lamb of God.

The will was never over-ridden, it was simply made CAPABLE of receiving Him.

Thus, He is sovereign in revealing His nature to me, AND he does not destroy my will. I was compelled because I now KNOW who HE is, not because He strong-armed me "against" my will.

Before He revealed Himself to me, Father/Son/Spirit were of no interest to me, nor were His Scriptures.

November 02, 2006 5:00 PM   Edit
Blogger elessi said...

Well if I was going to be inside I would be inside already. The question from paul g, it reads as something from a fantasy book for me... I've never seen or heard of any of the things he asked about (let alone done them) not even in any church I've been to.

November 02, 2006 6:19 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Allforlove:
Abraham exactly was saved, when Jesus called him out of Haran.

Saved and born again is a terminology, for a new spiritual life in Christ.

The first birth, born of the flesh is natural.
That person also has faith and belief, if you like, faith and belief in god! The Bible says, “even the demons believe and tremble.”
The second birth, (born again) is spiritual.
That person has a new faith, and that is faith in Jesus Christ, and a new belief, that is in Jesus Christ. He who is in Christ is a new creation old things have passed away, behold all things are new. 2 Cor. 5:17
A person born of the flesh also can believe in Jesus, but that is another Jesus, and not the Lord Jesus Christ who is God over all forever. Rom. 9:5

All4love: faith and belief are not the same.

To change the tract.
I see Jesus taking the cross to the left side, killing His elect with the cross, and causing them to be born again in the newness of life on the right side in the kingdom of light (Jesus).
We have died with Christ, we will also live with Him.Rom.6:8 in the kingdom of God on the right side.

You see! Nothing we did, not our choice, it is the choice of Jesus and His work.

November 02, 2006 10:09 PM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

Excellently said anonymous,

Jesus' divine will doen not overide our own. However we can never will to be saved by Him until the moment He reveals Himself and HIs light. Untill then our eyes are closed, even though our wills are active.

It is not unjust the Jesus should save some and not others, but if true justice were to be served none would be save at all. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and all are deserving of the Wages of sin, which is death. Although our will is never crushed it is true when the Bible says the Cross is foolishness to the greek and a stumbling block to the Jew, without the Spirit opening the eyes of the unbeliever one simply cannot understand Grace.

How can one want something one does not know about? It is like blaming Aristotle for not wanting a porsche. Just because Aristotle did not want a porsche does not mean his will was crushed, he just didn't know about them. Before desire must come knowledge.

MDM

November 03, 2006 9:42 PM   Edit
Blogger Allforlove said...

hey guys, all interesting views :),im sure we can talk about these things till the cows come back,or jesus comes back,which ever happens first hehe . but anyway, im going away for a couple of weeks so wont be on here...

PB : would love to hand out some of your tracts...r they in print:)

in love
god bless

November 03, 2006 11:32 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Modern day magi, and
Anonymous:
What father does not override the will of his children?
Only a father with no authority let his children do what they will.
A father with authority disciplines his children, or they would be Illegitimate children.

November 04, 2006 1:08 PM   Edit
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you not believe His presence to be sufficient (once He has opened our eyes to see Him), to compel our worship? He COULD use the force of His will to override ours, but why? It is unnecessary, and would be redundant.

Besides which, compulsion in worship (just as in the giving of money) would pollute / diminish the worship given.

Was not even John 'the beloved', (author of a gospel, several letters, and the book of Revelation) overwhelmed by the majesty of a mere angel, to mistakenly bow down before it? Did not Peter, before he was changed, beg Jesus to depart on account of his sin?

How much more, then, once the veil has been lifted and our dead hearts have been changed from stone to flesh, would we glorify the one who changed them, at the cost of His own death and resurrection?

November 04, 2006 4:26 PM   Edit
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Puritan Belief

you have a curious view of parenting, have you a family of your own?

Which is greater, suppressing the will of the child to bare obedience (LAW), or correcting/shaping/training the will to spontaneous joyful obedience (GRACE).

Because of the latter, it is no burden to worship Him. Life is encompassed by the Royal Law of Love.

By the way, Are not YOU the one so often complaining about the legalistic nature of others? Why then is this difficult for you?

November 04, 2006 4:48 PM   Edit
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sorry, that should have been to Paul

November 05, 2006 5:40 AM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

The Word of God is His divinely inspired revelation to mankind. Found within the pages of the Scripture is not only the Gospel but also the perfect manner in which to live.

Ephesians 6:4 says: "Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord."

exasperate: to irritate or provoke to a high degree; annoy extremely: He was exasperated by the senseless delays.

What is more frustrating, annoying or exasperating than being forced against your will to do something?

Training: the education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained: He's in training for the Olympics.

Training may be uncomfortable but it is never against the will of the person being trained. It is not forceing a person to do something, but teaching or instructing them how to do it well.

So if God were to live by His own Word, which He does since He does not lie and His Word is truth.

Would God exasperate His spiritual children by saving them against their will?
Or would He train them in righteousness after revealing Himself to them?

MDM

November 05, 2006 6:27 AM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

Salvation does not come through the will of man, nor does it come against the will of man.

How many christians do you know of who would prefer not to be saved?

MDM

November 05, 2006 2:22 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Anonymous + Modern day magi:

It wouldn’t surprise me that you don’t know the ways of the Lord and I don’t need any instruction on how to raise my children in the admonishment of the Lord.
If you claim to be my brother,
then tell me what is the name of your father who is in heaven?
If you don’t know, then you are an illegitimate son, because only illegitimate children don’t know their fathers name.
Also an illegitimate son who is held in the kingdom of darkness does not have a free will. 2 Tim. 2:26

November 05, 2006 7:22 PM   Edit
Blogger Puritan Belief said...

I have never heard of a child being disciplined of his own free will. Only bad parents do this and sooner or later their children rebel.

Every good parent disciplines their child against their will.

My Heavenly Father is no different. When I was lost in sin against my will he made me a new creation. All this was of Jesus not of me for I was a hater of God and lover of self. Jesus full work of salvation is my grace.

As a Christian now He still disciplines me against my will. My hope is that I may not despise or faint when under his chastisement.

November 06, 2006 8:48 AM   Edit
Blogger Modern Day Magi said...

Paul g and PB,

There are many names given to God in the Bible. However there is one name above all names, Jesus. This is the name of God revealed in the flesh to mankind. This is the only name by which salvation comes.(Acts 4:8-12)
Jesus is also the Name of His and our Father. (John 17:11-12
This does not and never will mean that the Trinity is false.

I would ask PB to move away from Trinitarian vs Oneness/Modalist debates as there have been many fruitful posts here on other topics. Looking into the great and faithful men of church history; looking into scripture about contemporary issues and examining small portions of scripture for valuable lessons about Christian character.

I have said it before I know, but now I have stated and re-stated, with scriptural evidence, (as have others) the case for a biblical understanding of the Trinity of Father, Son and Spirit as the One living and true God.

There is nothing more to be gained from Trinitarian debate here.

I must submit to the Word of God as found in
2 Timothy 2:23 I have attempted to follow 2 Timothy 2:24-25 and I pray that 2 Timothy 2:26 will occur.

I will however continue to comment on other matters.
___________________________________

The simile of Jesus being the Groom and His Church being His bride is common in scripture. Ephesians 5:23-25 is one such passage. The Church must submit to Christ, not because He forces the Church to do so but out of respect and Love for Him. Righteous submission to Jesus is a form of worship. Notice the love Jesus has for the Chruch, He “gave himself up for her.”

To continue this figure of speech, you are both suggesting that Jesus crushes and overrides the will of the church in effect He takes His ‘bride’ against her will.

What would you call it if a literal husband took his literal bride against her will?

Hint: It is a four letter word beginning with “R” and rhyming with “tape.”

MDM

November 07, 2006 3:06 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

Modern day magi:
Do you mean that JESUS is the name of God the FATHER? John 17:11-12

All Trinitarians:
I know that you do not like me to talk about the trinity lie. But somebody has to expose this wicked doctrine of the Antichrist, who says that God is THREE persons and that Jesus is not the Almighty God the Father. We have to look to another person the Father whose name is Jehovah.
What a lie and a deception!

Perhaps you don’t like us to expose this false salvations gospel (illustration).
This is preached proclaimed and taught by almost all Christians.
Shortly I will tell you the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

November 08, 2006 8:34 PM   Edit
Blogger Paul G said...

If you ask anybody, they always say, the gospel is salvation, or an explanation of salvation, or a strategy how to be saved as in PB’s illustration.
The gospel is NOT a cleverly laid out theory about salvation, where only the knowledgeable and learned people can know and preach.
The gospel is not a theory.

The gospel is simple and easy! Even a child can proclaim and preach it.
The gospel is a person, His name is JESUS!

Example:
The gospel of “God”, is Jesus Christ who is the only true and Sovereign God etc.etc.
The gospel of “Creation”, is Jesus who created all things, and nothing came into being apart from Him etc.etc. It is totally up to you, what scriptural passages you like to use.
The gospel of “Salvation” is Jesus Christ and there is no other name given whereby you must be saved. Etc. etc. again it’s totally up to you, how to portray Jesus in salvation.
The gospel of “Redemption”, the gospel of “The Kingdom of God” etc.etc. again it is always Jesus Christ proclaimed.

This is the gospel which I preach.
Paul said, “the gospel which I Paul have become a servant.” Col. 1:15-23
Take note, everything points to Jesus.
If we lift up Jesus, He will draw all men to Himself.

November 10, 2006 7:31 PM   Edit

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Puritan Belief