The Father of Creation became a Man
Concerning Jesus:All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3
The one who made all things is the Father of creation. In all his power and glory He humbled Himself and entered His creation as a baby boy.
"Veiled in flesh the Godhead see,
Hail the Incarnate Deity!
Pleased as man with man to dwell,
Jesus our Emmanuel!" Charles Wesley(1707-1788)
The most splendid moment in History was when the Lord of Glory hid himself in the skin of a man.
How? Virgin Birth (Surrogate mother)
Why? To seek and to save what was lost.
Who? The God Head see?
When? Over 2000 Years ago
Add Your Comment(27)
The Father of Creation became a ManPosted by Correy Sunday, December 24, 2006
After reading many creeds and belief statements
I decided to stick to my own
27 Comments:
Excellent post PB!
The Lord Jesus is great and wonderful!!
Who is like the Lord Jesus in all His majesty and splendor?
Is there somebody else who is like Jesus?
NO there is No other person in heaven and on earth who is greater then Jesus!
NOT Allah.
NOT Jehovah.
NOT Yahweh or anybody else.
It is Jesus Christ alone who is the creator of heaven and earth and all things which has been made.
All glory and honour belongs to Jesus alone for ever and ever so be it.
Actually, the Father stayed in heaven... but, yes, the Son gloriously and humbly condescended to our level in order that He might die for us. Please read a recent post of mine on the Trinity; to the readers of this blog, I humbly request the same things.
May God guide us all into His eternal truths!
Adam:
I like how the bible puts it.
To wit, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto HIMself.
The Baby boy Jesus Christ ruled the world from Heaven by HIS Spirit namely the Spirit of Christ. This is the Father who is in Heaven who is everywhere.
Veiled in Flesh the Godhead see? It's Jesus...
It is a great day when people get rid of the idols they worship who are not Jesus Christ the God of majesty and glory to whom the sons of God give ALL glory and honour.
Adam:
Modern day magi did much better with the trinity on his blog. He even pointed out the Anglican perversion of the truth, the Westminster confession.
Adam! ALL Trinitarians pervert the truth, by saying “Jesus is God with two other persons”.
One of the persons of God the Father sent another person his Son, who would like to save the whole world, perhaps with the permission of the third person the Holy Spirit, yet they are all in agreement and in union with one another, except Jesus who can do nothing unless another person the Father tells Him so.
Can you see how messy that is!
Trinitarians write volumes of explanations to make this lie fit with Scripture.
The truth is simple; it is Jesus who is the Lord God. You do not need to seek further, if you are with Jesus, you are with the Father of all creation who hid Himself in the skin of a man as PB said, the most splendid moment in History 2000 years ago.
So that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
PaulG,
No offense, but my post has much more substance than everything that has just been said.
All I ever see from this site is Scripture proving that Jesus is God, which no orthodox trinitarian denies. Again, it will be a joyous day when someone in here addresses the arguments presented. Straw men get old pretty quickly.
God bless.
Adam:
You said; all I ever see from this site is Scripture proving that Jesus is God.
Are you suggesting that there is somebody else who is the creator God and Father than Jesus Christ?
In Is. 9:6 Jesus is called God the Father.
Adam your catholic fathers have told you a lie, when they said Jesus is not God the Father the creator of all things. Because they belong to another father, Jesus made that clear in John 8:31 to those who believed in Him, He said in v.44 they belong to their father the devil.
Do you believe in their father?
Or do you believe in Jesus who is the Father of His children?
Adam, you can’t have it both ways!
PB,
Do you not realize that in your effort to defend one biblical doctrine (monotheism) you have denied another? The eternality of the Son as distinct from the Father is clearly maintained in scripture.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
If language means anything and if God has spoken, then there is a Person (here referred to as the Word) who was in the beginning WITH another Person (here referred to as God). The Person called the Word has the same essence as the Person called God. The text says “the Word was God.”
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
The eternal Person referred to as the Word became a man. He is the Son from the Father. The Father did not become a man.
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. John 1:18
Throughout John chapter 1 the Person referred to as God is the Father. Verse 18 says that no one has ever seen God (the Father). The Son, who again, has the same essence as the Father (He is God), and who is as the Father’s side, He has made the Father known.
Your denial of the eternality of the Son is a damnable heresy.
No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. First John 2:2
T.
Takin:
You said; do you not realize that in your effort to defend one biblical doctrine (monotheism) you have denied another?
Do you suggest that there is another doctrine than (monotheism)?
Perhaps you would like us to defend your catholic doctrine polytheism, where Jesus is God with another person or persons the (trinity).
John 1:1 is speaking about the same ONE person Christ Jesus who is God over all. Previously discussed and explained. Any other persons you are talking about are not in the Text.
Takin, you have to take off your catholic Trinitarian glasses and replace them with the Holy Spirit glasses, and then you will able to see the glory of the invisible God who is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus Christ is the Father, is the Son, is the Holy Spirit embodied, is the eternal only one true person who is God, and there is NO other person who is God beside Him.
Remember when you point a finger to someone on heresy, three fingers always point back to you.
If someone does not love the truth,
God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. 2 Thes.2:11
The teaching of the trinity has enough deception to lead a simple believer in Jesus to stray from the truth the Lord Jesus to another person who is also called God, in order that they may transgress the foremost commandment of the Lord.
Hear o Israel, the Lord thy God is one, you shall have no other gods beside the Lord your God.
We know that we are the children of God and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one.
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true even in his Son Jesus Christ, He is the true God and eternal life.
Dear children, keep yourselves from idols. 1 John 5:19-21
Monotheism is biblical and it is the foundation of the doctrine of the Trinity. I am not a polytheist nor am I a Roman Catholic. Your repeated attempt to impugn the doctrine of the Trinity because it is affirmed by Rome is a fallacious argument. The fact that a false religious system maintains a particular doctrine does not automatically make that doctrine wrong. Otherwise, on the same basis, we would have to reject the virgin birth of Christ. By the way there is a heretical group here in the United States called the United Pentecostal Church. They teach the same false doctrine concerning the Trinity that I hear coming from you.
You said, “Perhaps you would like us to defend your catholic doctrine polytheism, where Jesus is God with another person or persons the (trinity).”
I can not defend polytheism. I do not believe in polytheism. I can and I have defended the biblical doctrine of the Trinity here.
You said, “Takin, you have to take off your catholic Trinitarian glasses and replace them with the Holy Spirit glasses, and then you will able to see the glory of the invisible God who is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Please help me to remove these glasses of which you speak. To begin you can explain to me the meaning of the word “with” in the context of John 1:1.
You said, “Remember when you point a finger to someone on heresy, three fingers always point back to you.”
This is interesting in light of your non-stop rant filled with ad hominem attacks.
T.
Hi Takin,
I won't address your last comment because it was more of a defence of your personality. Your previous one was better.
I don't think you meant First John 2:2 perhaps a mistake.
The actually verse has an obvious meaning to me. By confessing the Son. By Lifting up the Son of God by knowing Him as the Alpha and the Omega the Almighty is to know the Father. Just by looking at this objectively it is obvious that by saying the Father of Creation became a man which is so obvious in John 1:3 then the Son is eternally existent in that He is also the Father of creation. If The Son came from the Father in that the Son is not the Alpha then the Son can never truly be eternally existent. I believe Jesus to be the First. Eternally existent before any other person. Yet a trinity states you the Father to have existed before the Son.
Takin, I like how you made it clear that in John 1:1 God in this context is God the Father. So using your observation lets make it simple.
"In the beginning was the word (Jesus) and the word was with God (the Father) and the word was God (The Father)"
Now before you say how I added to the word of God just go back and read all the extra things you had to add to the verse particularly the words persons and essence and beings to back up the cardinal doctrine of the catholic church.
Please feel free to call me a heretic. All the great men of God have been called heretics and it is an honor to be persecuted for lifting Jesus up to the most exalted position. What name are you being persecuted for takin? Certainly not Jesus for whenever this blog lifts Him up to be God Almighty you are always there in the background gnashing your teeth.
Who else in scripture gnashed their teeth when Jesus was made to be God and Father of creation the one and only I AM. 2000 Years have passed and these same people now call themselves Christians and have different doctrines to rationalise Jesus sayings.
---
Define Sovereign:independent of all others; supreme in power, rank, or authority.
Anyone who wants to proclaim the Sovernity of God without lifting
Jesus up to this position as Sovereign proclaims a false God.
A trinitarian is always limited to lifting Jesus up to be the second person of a Tri-theism
I have heard so many people say it isn't polytheism and then write thousands of words to say how what is obviously a contradiction isn't really.
Jesus simply said. Unless you believe that I am He you will surely die in your sins. To me when I read this I believe Him to be the Lord God Almighty. The one true Sovereign God. If you believe this you have to give up any idols who are not Jesus.
Takin
I find it interesting that you would agree with catholics on the virgin birth. From their doctrine of the virgin birth comes the root of their errors.
Getting the doctrine of the virgin birth correct would do you a lot of good. I am sure if you thought about it you already differ greatly from the catholics.
Takin:
You said; the fact that a false religious system maintains a particular doctrine does not automatically make that doctrine wrong.
Jesus defies that argument by saying, that a bad tree can not bear good fruit. And a false religious system can not have a right doctrine.
You are defending a catholic doctrine NOT a Biblical doctrine.
Polytheism is the foundation of the trinity, NOT monotheism.
Judge for yourself!
Your statement:
The Father is not the Son.
The Father is not the Holy Spirit.
The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
The Being of God is not divided between three “Persons”. Rather, each “Person possesses fully Deity.
Blind Freddy can see polytheism in that.
The doctrine of the trinity is not affirmed by Rome, it is conceived by Rome. Because she (Rome) is the MOTHER of every false doctrine and lie, and her bridegroom is the FATHER of every lie and deception John 8:44 they together gave birth to the doctrine the TRINITY and ALL her other doctrines.
All her children are Trinitarians and produce children to Rome ‘Trinitarians.’
For this reason Jesus is calling you out of your Trinitarian churches, so that you may be a bride to Christ.
If you do not come out of her and be separate, then you belong to your Mother and Father Rome, it matters not how you disguise yourself.
No disciple of Jesus believes that God is three persons; we all believe that God is one person Jesus Christ and we declare and testify that Jesus is Lord.
Takin:
You said contrary to Scripture.
(The Father is not the Son).
John 14:9+10 Jesus said: “Don’t you know me, Takin, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, show us the Father? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me.
(The Father is not the Holy Spirit).
Luke 1:35 The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Do you think Jesus would call somebody else Father than the Holy Spirit??
(The Son is not the Holy Spirit).
2Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord Jesus is the Spirit.
Takin your teaching completely opposes Scripture.
If the root of any doctrine is in Catholicism, then what is on top is catholic.
If the root of any doctrine is in Christ, then what is on top is Christ.
Jesus said by their fruit you shall know them.
PB you said,
“Just by looking at this objectively it is obvious that by saying the Father of Creation became a man which is so obvious in John 1:3 then the Son is eternally existent in that He is also the Father of creation.”
John 1:3 does not call the Word the “Father of creation.” He is the one though whom everything was made. And because everything was made through Him it is evident that He was not made or created. The Word is eternal. He is God.
You said,
“If The Son came from the Father in that the Son is not the Alpha then the Son can never truly be eternally existent.”
Jesus came from the Father when He came to the earth and became flesh. He is the Alpha. He is the first. He is eternally existent. He is God.
You siad,
“I believe Jesus to be the First. Eternally existent before any other person. Yet a trinity states you the Father to have existed before the Son.”
The Father did not exist before the Son. There was never a time when the Son did not exist. Neither did the Son exist before the Father. The Father and the Son are co-eternal and co-existent. Do you believe the Son existed before the Father.
I do not know what doctrine you are criticizing here but it certainly is not the doctrine of the Trinity. No Trinitarian teaches that the Father preexisted the Son.
You said,
“Takin, I like how you made it clear that in John 1:1 God in this context is God the Father. So using your observation lets make it simple. "In the beginning was the word (Jesus) and the word was with God (the Father) and the word was God (The Father)"”
PB, your observation is not simple; it is simplistic. I’m sure you are aware of the difference in the two usages of the word for God in the original. The first use has with it the definite article; the Word was with (the) God. The second use does not have the definite article. This does not mean that, as the JW’s say, we should supply an indefinite article; the Word was a god. Rather, the contrast between the use of the article in the first case and its absence in the second suggest the distinction that I have made. The use of the article reflects a personal reference. The Person referred to is the Person “the Word was WITH.” The absence of the article in the second use is because it is not a personal reference. John is not saying that the Word is the Person He was WITH. He is saying that the Word is by nature Deity.
You said,
“Now before you say how I added to the word of God just go back and read all the extra things you had to add to the verse particularly the words persons and essence and beings to back up the cardinal doctrine of the catholic church.”
I have not added words to the verse “to back up the cardinal doctrine of the catholic church.” We all know what the text says. I have used definitional words to point out what is clearly stated in the text. Namely, the Word is eternal, He is in eternal relationship with the Father and He is of the same essence as the Father.
I will ask you the same thing I asked Paul G. What does the word WITH mean in the context of John 1:1.
You said,
“A trinitarian is always limited to lifting Jesus up to be the second person of a Tri-theism”
The biblical doctrine of the Trinity does not limit Jesus to a second class position. When trinitarians refer to Jesus as the Second Person of the Trinity we do not mean that He is second in power, prominence, privilege, position, or rank. The Son is Second only in the matter of revelation.
Hebrews 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
T.
Paul G,
You said,
“Takin: You said; the fact that a false religious system maintains a particular doctrine does not automatically make that doctrine wrong. Jesus defies that argument by saying, that a bad tree can not bear good fruit. And a false religious system can not have a right doctrine.”
Are you really suggesting that this passage is saying a false religious system can never say a true thing. If so the same passage says that a true religion never errs. The first part of the verse says, "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit…”
And then there is this:
John 11:49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish." 51 Now this he did not say on his own initiative; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.
Caiaphas was the leader of a corrupt religious system, but the Bible declares the truthfulness of his statement. How can that be.
You said,
"You are defending a catholic doctrine NOT a Biblical doctrine. Polytheism is the foundation of the trinity, NOT monotheism."
If I were defending a Catholic doctrine I would cite Catholic creeds and councils. For me, the Bible is the only rule for faith and doctrine.
You said,
“No disciple of Jesus believes that God is three persons; we all believe that God is one person Jesus Christ and we declare and testify that Jesus is Lord.”
No one who believes the doctrine of the Trinity is a Christian? The Puritans? The Reformers? The fathers? The Apostles?
I sure am glad that you are not the judge of who is in Christ!
As I am posting this I see that you have posted again. I will respond later, but you still have not explained to me what the word “WITH” means in the context of John 1:1.
T
Takin:
I have discussed most of the things you bought up before especially this question in depth a few times. Here is a whole post that was done.
The Word Was With God
Takin:
You said,
Are you really suggesting that this passage is saying a false religious system can never say a true thing. If the same passage says that a true religion never errs.
Exactly, this is what the Lord is saying.
A false religious system can NOT say anything true, otherwise it would not be a false system.
Out of a dirty well can NOT flow clean water.
A true religious system can NOT err, otherwise it is not true.
A false church will preach a false Jesus and a false spirit and a false gospel as we have portrayed previous.
A person or a church with a false spirit can NOT say Jesus is Lord. 1 Cor. 12:3
They say Jesus is Lords with two other persons.
Takin:
Why is it that you never agree with the Lord Jesus when He said, “A good tree can not produce bad fruit”?
You suggest it can!
Why is it when Jesus said, “The Lord thy God is One”.
You say He is three?
You are not defending the faith in Jesus, you are defending your own doctrines.
RE: belief
Belief Puzzle
http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/2007/01/belief-puzzle.html
still trinity bashing? *groan*
PB,
You state that Mary was only a Sarrogate mother and not Jesus' actual mother. (Found nowhere in scripture)
If this is the case the Jesus would not qualify to be the Messiah as He is prophetically called the seed or ofspring of the woman (see Why is it important that Mary is Jesus' mother?) that is, He is of her seed.
Paul g,
to follow your own logic for a moment...
Have you ever in your life told a lie?
Have you told a lie since becomming a Christian and being saved from sin?
Ignoring lies, have you ever in you life commited a sin?
Have you ever committed a sin since becoming a christian?
If you answer no to the above then you must not need a saviour anyway, but if you answer yes to even one of the above (In my case yes to all of the above) then you are not to be believed.
"A good tree can not produce bad fruit" and "Out of a dirty well can NOT flow clean water.
A true religious system can NOT err, otherwise it is not true."
To follow this logic if dirty water has ever flowed from you (since being saved) you are a dirty well and clean water (truth) cannot flow from you. Likewise if your position about this is correct and you have ever erred (since becomming a christian) then your religious system or beliefs is also by default flawed and not true.
Judge by the same measure remember Matthew 7:2.
For many generations before Christ the Jews were the religious system which carried the presence, word and propheseys of God. The 'fruit' of that religious tree was the Messiah, Jesus, The Lord of Hosts, The Alaph and the Tau, The First and Last, The Saviour, Good Shepherd, Creator, Friend, The Son of God etc. I would suggest that from the false or bad tree of Judaism the Good and wonderful fruit of Jesus came, would you agree that Jesus is in all ways Good?
You all know well (or can find out easily by backreading som posts here) what the Bible teaches and what I believe about the Trinity (although you passionbately dissagree) so I am not entering that part of this discussion. Just PB's issue of Mary's supposed surrogacy and Paul G's use of the "Once wrong always wrong" arguement.
MDM
Trinitarian churches.
The harlot, who claims to be the bride of Christ.
She lives in Rome seated on seven hills and is dressed in fine purple clothing, adorned with precious stones and every kind of riches and dwells in luxurious places.
She is known under her real name TRINITY, she has inherit the name TRINITY because she prays to and worship’s three persons who are gods, and also the mother of her gods.
She loves her name TRINITY because it is the name of her gods.
She and one of her lovers who is the father of all liars have conceived many daughters. All of her daughters are called after her own name TRINITY and she became the mother of all TRINITARIANS. She names the streets TRINITY lane and her Cathedrals TRINITY churches.
All of her TRINITARIAN children were indoctrinated with the TRINITY and became TRINITARIANS, they were scattered all over the world, everyone knew them by their mothers name TRINITY and all were called TRINITARIANS.
If one of her children refused to be called TRINITY and rejected the TRINITY teaching she called them heretics, excommunicated them and burned them with fire, she became drunk with the blood of the saints.
TRINITARIANS have common family practices, they teach the TRINITY and wear religious clothing to set themselves apart as priests with titles like pastor, reverend, father, cardinal, bishop or pope.
They like to preach tithing, to build their empires, gain power and riches to pay everyone who loves the TRINITY high salaries to teach the TRINITY.
The TRINITY is in their hearts, and from the abundance of their hearts they preach the TRINITY.
The TRINITY is always on their mind and on their forehead is written the name of their god,
TRINITY
Modern day magi:
All your doctrines are polluted and unclean, because they come from an unclean well (Catholicism) just as Jesus said.
If the roots of your teaching are in Catholicism, what do you think your teaching will be?
Your teaching on the virgin birth was cooked up in Rome long before you were born.
Jesus disowned His father Joseph, Luke 2:48-50 the same way He disowned His mother brothers and sisters Mark 3:32-35. Remember Jesus is God who does not have a mother or a father, He is the Father became flesh and dwelled among us.
The virgin birth and her surrogacy:
A human being comes into being and is complete when the 23 chromosomes from the male unite with the 23 chromosomes from the female total 46 chromosomes, then the whole genetic information for a human being is complete.
On conception of Jesus, all 46 chromosomes came from God (who is Spirit) and NO chromosomes came from Mary.
That makes Mary a surrogate mother!
For this reason Jesus is called the only begotten or (only one of a kind 1 John 4:9.
It is NOT that God mingled with sinful flesh. Mary’s flesh was sinful like yours and mine with two natures.
Mary was blessed among women to carry the savior in her womb.
If 23 chromosomes came from Mary, then Jesus would be born in sin and could not be the holy offspring, He would have two natures like Mary. (Unthinkable!)
But as it is Jesus has ONE nature in the likeness of Adam.
So God who has NO nature became a man with ONE nature in the likeness of Adam, sinless without original sin.
The virgin birth: if Mary would not have been a virgin at conception, then Jesus would have been conceived in sin and would not be the Messiah. But it happened exactly as the scripture said through the mouth of the Prophets.
The genealogy:
According to the spirit, Jesus has NO genealogy, otherwise He would be a descendent of Adam.
In Hebrews 7:3 without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning or days or end of life like the Son of God He remains a priest forever.
According to the flesh:
The genealogy is inconsistent and can not be satisfactory traced back to Adam.
The main reason is, that Jesus is nobody’s son, He makes that clear when He asked “the Christ, who’s son is He?”
Jesus Christ is God became flesh. God can NOT be somebody’s son.
God is the Son.
God is the Father.
God is the Holy Spirit.
It is the Lord of Glory Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh (ESV)
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (KJV)
Romans 1:3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, (NKJV)
Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, (NIV)
Thanks for your comment Takin, I decided to do another post on this point. Take Care
When I initially commented I clicked the "Notify me when new comments are added" checkbox and
now each time a comment is added I get four emails with
the same comment. Is there any way you can remove people from that service?
Thanks!
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