The TRINITY is UN-biblical and antichrist!
Nowhere is the TRINITY found in the
Scriptures!
Scripture, John 10:30) The Lord Jesus
Christ said, 'I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE' !
Trinitarians say that Jesus is NOT the
Father, therefore Jesus and the Father are TWO.
Intelligence says, if Jesus is NOT the
Father, then Jesus and the Father are TWO.
But the Lord Jesus said that He and the
Father ore ONE, meaning that Jesus is the Father.
Therefore, ALL trinitarians are
deceived and preach another god in the place of Jesus Christ.
Scripture, Jesus is speaking, (Mark
12:29) “GOD IS ONE” !
All trinitarians without exception say
that God is THREE.
Question; who is the liar and the
antichrist, those who say that Jesus who is the ONE GOD or the
trinitarians who say that God is THREE ?
The answer to that is clear, Jesus is
the TRUTH (John 14:6) and anyone who speaks against the Scripture and
against what the Lord Jesus has said are deceived and antichrist (2
John 1:7).
Antichrist in that they deny that Jesus
is the Father, and replace Jesus with another entity and call him
Father.
Antichrist means, against Jesus Christ
and also in place of Jesus Christ.
Trinitarians always teach opposite to
Scriptures and against the Lord Jesus Christ, and for that reason
they are antichrist.
Trinitarians preach and teach OPPOSITE
to Scriptures.
Scripture, (2 Cor. 3:17) “Now the
Lord is that Spirit.” meaning, that the Lord Jesus Christ of
Nazareth is the Spirit clothed in flesh, yes! Jesus IS the Holy
Spirit just as the Scriptures said.
Trinitarians say that the Spirit is NOT
the Lord Jesus, he is separate, he is the THIRD person of the
trinity.
Intelligence says that, if the Lord
Jesus IS the Spirit and God IS Spirit (John 4:24), then Jesus Christ
is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit in ONE PERSON Jesus
Christ our Lord and ONLY God (Jude 1:25).
Trinitarians distort plain Scriptures
and turn it into man made nonsensical theories saying that 'THREE
equal ONE' or the 'THREE are ONE', meaning that those three
god-persons equal one God.
ALL trinitarians are guilty of bowing
their knees to Baal, to the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4) which is
Satan, and every trinitarian who has not the love of the truth will
believe the lie (2 Thes. 2:11).
If you are in a trinitarian church and
have been caught up in that antichrist doctrine the trinity, then
read this post again and judge yourself rightly, seek the Lord Jesus
Christ, repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be
saved, believe NOT and you shall be damned (Mark 16:16).
The Scriptures and the Spirit says it
clearly.
John 1:3-10 and Colossians 1:16 says it
clearly. “For by Him (Jesus Christ) all things were created, both
in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones
or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created
through Him and for Him. V.17.He is before all things, and in Him all
things hold together.”
And in Isaiah 43:10 the Lord Jesus
said, “You are My witnesses, declares the Lord, and My servant whom
I have chosen, So that you may KNOW and BELIEVE ME and UNDERSTAND
that I AM HE. Before ME there was NO God formed, And there will be
NONE after ME. (v. 11) I, even I, am the LORD, and
there is NO saviour beside Me.”
The question I will ask you, does Jesus
have a Father ? Or is He the Father ?
No, you can't have it both ways.
Do you believe the Bible ?
The Bible said that Jesus does NOT have
a Father (Hebrew 7:3).
And the Spirit said that the creator of
heaven and earth does NOT and can NOT have a Father and neither does
He need a Father.
Further more the Spirit said, “He who
has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
(Rev. 2:17)
Add Your Comment(37)
The TRINITY is UN-biblical and antichrist!Posted by Paul G Thursday, February 04, 2016
After reading many creeds and belief statements
I decided to stick to my own
37 Comments:
John 1 says that The Word of God was God and was with God. The Word of God is the creative power of God. In the same way that the Word of God, that comes out of the mouth of God, created all things, he created man and the first Adam, in the same way that he created Y'shua, to be indwelled by God, himself.
For your reading pleasure.
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ IS COME IN THE FLESH is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
Hi Keith, thank you for that challenge.
I always appreciate a challenge, an instruction, a correction and even a rebuke. I think that is necessary for my spiritual growth and perhaps for all of us who delight in the Lord.
Look brother, I know that you are a deep thinking man and I agree with what you have said, but John 1, does not suggest that there are TWO god-persons or two separate entities.
Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ has commissioned me to expose the doctrine of the trinity so that all His children will not transgress the first and the second commandment of the Lord.
Many brothers use John 1, to say that God is more than ONE.
If God is more than ONE, then He is TWO! That's simple mathematics and we shouldn't transgress that either.
God is NOT a Siamese twin or a Siamese triplet.
God is the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth and beside Him is no other God.
Jesus was in the beginning creating the world, He didn't need a physical body in order to create the world just as it says in John 4:24 that He is Spirit.
Now, Jesus who IS the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17) has prepared for Himself a body about 5 thousand years later so that we can see the Lord God the Almighty in His glory in human form Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
You see, very simple!
This is the light of truth who shines in darkness, and (the world of trinitarians) who are in darkness did NOT comprehend it (John 1:5).
They still don't comprehend it, and neither will they believe it, they rather believe the lie that God is two or three persons and that false belief is antichrist.
Comment to your quote of I John 4:3.
That is exactly what I am saying. Every man or woman or spirit who does NOT SAY (confess) and does not agree that the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the ONLY God the creator of heaven and earth who IS Spirit (John 4:24) has come in flesh and walked among us, is antichrist.
In that sense, antichrist means AGAINST the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hey Paul,
In the end, we are almost, saying the same thing. I beleiver that Y'shua is God, in spirit alone, not the flesh. You believe he is completely God, the Father. I think that is what confuses a lot of people. We are unable to see the true natural of the Messiah.
As I have said before, one of us is wrong, and God will explain it to us on the way up. :-)
With that said, the beautiful thing is that we both have accepted the gift of salvation through Y'shua and are Kings and Priests, of the Kingdom of God.
Your Loving Brother in the Messiah,
Keith
Yes my Loving Brother in the Messiah, I am very blessed that you are my 'Loving Brother in the Messiah', and I'm almost in fear and trembling to pick a tiny little splinter from your eye, when the Lord says that I have a plank in my own eye.
But I did asked the Lord Jesus to remove that plank from my eyes so that I might see clearly, and He therefore has commissioned me to speak against and expose the doctrine of the trinity and He also said, that no one shall stand before me.
Of course I need to have that tested against all my brothers and sisters in Christ and everyone else who has a knowledge of God and the Scriptures.
Because of that, I have been challenging every Bible believer to show me and prove me wrong from the Scriptures and by the Spirit of the Lord and also intellectually in order for me to repent, and such I would eagerly do, yes in sackcloth and in ashes and also publicly. :-)
You said, "As I have said before, one of us is wrong, and God will explain it to us on the way up. :-)"
In deed one of us is wrong, and the Lord Jesus Christ IS explaining that to us right now on the way up. :-) ;-)
Yes we both have received the free gift of God which is eternal life and we both rejoice exceedingly in the Lord our God Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
But there is still a major adjustment to make.
We both know that the Lord does not like that we call someone else Father.
He said through the mouth of the prophet Jeremiah 3:19 ' I thought that you would call Me Father'.
First, we have to ask, which God wants us to call Him Father?
Is it Jesus or is it another ?
Jesus said in John 10:30 'I and the Father are ONE.
That means exactly that the Lord Jesus IS our heavenly Father, and we ought to call JESUS 'FATHER”.
And no my friend, there is absolutely no other interpretation.
Remember, that all the Jews fully understood what Jesus had said in John 10:30, and for that reason they picked up stones to murder Him (v. 31).
Did they believe that Jesus is the Father? Of course not! Just like ALL trinitarians.
In fact NO Jew would ever believe that God is THREE persons, or entities or whatever. I think that you would agree with that.
Well, I would like to say that again that the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Father and anyone who says that He is NOT the Father is deceived and doesn't believe in Jesus.
Keith, next time when you are in a prayer meeting, please listen to those trinitarian Christians, they pray to one god called the father through another god called Jesus.
Now wonder why their prayers bouncing straight back from the ceiling.
Which one of those gods do you think is going to listen to them?
Your Loving Brother in Jesus Christ our Lord and God. Paul
Hey Paul,
Three Things:
1. We are in agreement that there are no three persons in God, no Trinity. God is Echad, one.
2. Show me one time where Y'shua referred to himself, as the Father. The Bible clearly shows that John 10:30 indicates that Y'shua and the Father are one is Spirit. Other verses clearly show that Y'shua and the Father is not one in thought, Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32.
3. There are numberous places, within the Bible, where Y'shua references the Father and the Father references Y'shua as separate entities, but one in Spirit. In Isaiah 11:2, Isaiah 42:1, Ezekiel 37:14 and Matthew 12:18. By the way, these also gives us an insight into how our new bodies, in Christ, will be. We will retain our own personal identities, while being one completely in Spirit with God.
Keith
Hi Paul,
Jesus and the Father are One in Spirit, just as we become one with the Lord when we are born again of God's Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians ch. 6 vs. 16 and 17 clarify this point well:-
'Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH." But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him'
John ch. 17 vs. 20 - 22 emphasizes the fact that many can be one in the Spirit, even though they may be separate individuals:-
'I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;…
Jesus is the Word, God is the Spirit - the power that is behind that Word. Praise His lovely name (which means Yahweh saves), and He does - through Jesus.
Yes Keith, We are in agreement that God is not three persons and I am glad that you have said that because it is important to believe and to say.
But the moment you say that, you are in TOTAL disagreement with every trinitarian.
( 2 ). The Lord Jesus has always said that He is the Father, That's why I have chosen John 10:30 unmistakably Jesus said He is the Father and for that very reason they wanted to stone Him to death (verse 31).
Even brother Philip didn't really believe that Jesus is the Father, therefore he said to Jesus “show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” and look at the reply from Jesus, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip??" and then the Lord Jesus explains to Philip that He is the Father (John 14:9 – 11). Jesus also said, if you can't believe that, then believe because of the works themselves (v. 11). In verse 9 Jesus said, that you looking at the Father etc.
Jesus said through the mouth of the prophet Isaiah 44:24 'I am the Lord I make all things ALONE!'
You said, 'the Bible clearly shows that John 10:30 indicates that Y'shua and the Father are one in Spirit.
No Keith, Jesus and the Father are NOT one in Spirit, saying that would override John 10:30.
Jesus is NOT one with another person or entity or spirit or whatever, if so, then they would be TWO.
The only way we can say that is, that Jesus IS the Father ( John 10:30), or that Jesus IS the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17).
If you are saying it any other way, you will always end up with TWO.
You said, 'Other verses clearly show that Y'shua and the Father is not one in thought, Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32.'
Again, if Jesus and the Father is not one in thought, then they are TWO, and that would override John 10:30 again.
Now all that we have said and quoted is PLAIN language.
(Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32) If you think that another person called Father knows something that the Lord Jesus doesn't know, then again you are overriding John 10:30 and saying that God is TWO.
The alternative is, that Jesus is not God but the other one called Father is God and that is unthinkable and UN-Biblical and it defies all intelligence.
You see, the Lord Jesus speaks in PLAIN language and also metaphoric language (Figurative).
John 16:25 Jesus said (paraphrased), 'Concerning the FATHER I am speaking FIGURATIVELY, but from now on I will speak PLAINLY about the FATHER.
(Mat. 24:36 and Mark 13:32 is figurative language. If you want me, I can explain it.
( 3 ). You said, 'There are numberous places, within the Bible, where Y'shua references the Father and the Father references Y'shua as separate entities, but one in Spirit.'
In many places Jesus refers to the Father, but ALWAYS (without exception) figuratively, as I have said above.
And there is NOT ONE verse or reference in the Bible where a so called 'FATHER' is speaking to Jesus, or a 'Father' is referring to Jesus.
That is NOT possible Keith.
Jesus IS the Father and the Scriptures said, that Jesus has NO FATHER (Hebrew 7:3), that's why it is impossible for the Lord Jesus Christ who is the creator of all things to have a Father.
Hi Brenda, I appreciate your input and I love your zeal for the Lord.
No Brenda, Jesus and the Father are NOT one in Spirit, if that would be so, then they would be TWO, but God is ONE and NOT TWO!
And if ONE, we need to determine which ONE?
I proclaim the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth to be that one and no other.
And you should not override the Scriptures with an assumption.
1 Corinthians 6 are two persons who become one in UNION and that is only for a time, or more specifically one in flesh, and that is also only for a time, but they are still two.
A prostitute who joins herself to many man are not one they are many.
But that is not so with Jesus and the Father. Jesus and the Father are ONE and the same person Jesus Christ of Nazareth. That's why Jesus said, 'he who has seen Me has seen the Father, or you looking at the Father, or I am your Father who is in heaven etc.'
That's what it is to believe in Jesus and to know God. And the Lord Jesus said, ' if you do not BELIEVE that I am He, you will die in your sins,' and He said it twice (John 8:24).
'I am He', means that Jesus is the ONLY true God and eternal life (1 John 5:20) and the Lord Jesus does NOT share deity with another.
Brenda, you need to believe that, or else you will suffer the consequences of your sins (John 8:24).
It is the Lord Jesus Christ who came to save us FROM our sins, so that we would not walk in them.
It is a sin to believe that God is more than ONE.
It is a sin to call any other one 'God'.
You said, 'John ch. 17 vs. 20 - 22 emphasizes the fact that many can be one in the Spirit, even though they may be separate individuals:- '
Yes, many individuals can be one in the Spirit, just as you have said, but they cannot be ONE individual, but God is ONE individual Jesus.
You said, 'I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;…
Jesus is the Word, God is the Spirit - the power that is behind that Word. Praise His lovely name (which means Yahweh saves), and He does - through Jesus.'
No Brenda, absolutely no.
Yahweh does NOT save and neither can he save. Yahweh is an imposter, a deceiver who places himself in front of the Lord Jesus Christ and proclaims himself to be God above the Lord Jesus Christ (Isaiah 14:13-14).
I call him the antichrist spirit!
That is the spirit who sets himself above the Lord Jesus Christ, and also in place of Jesus Christ.
The Scripture said that the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth IS the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17).
The antichrist spirit has deceived the whole world starting with the antichrist 'MAN', the man of lawlessness, the Pope of Rome with the teaching of the TRINITY.
John chapter 17 is the High priestly prayer and that must be understood in the light of Melchizedek in the book of Hebrews 7.
Paul,
Jesus is the Word of God, that is why He and the Father are One. He is not talking about His fleshly body when He says 'He who has seen me has seen the Father'- God made Him Who had no sin to become sin for us. The sin was in the flesh, so He was not talking about 'seeing Him in the flesh' as 'seeing the Father', He was talking about seeing Him in the Spirit. He looked like us in the flesh, but the difference was that His Spirit was the Spirit of God, not the spirit of man - there was no human father involved in Jesus' birth. The flesh was the part that had to be sacrificed for us.
The fleshly body of Jesus was the Word of God becoming flesh, God's only begotten Son, the firstborn of many brethren. That is why we must be born again of the Spirit in order to become like Jesus. Jesus' words are Spirit as in John ch. 6 v. 63:- 'It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.'
I know that my own experience of being born again of God's Holy Spirit has been the only process that could have brought me into a situation where I hear the voice of God speaking through the scriptures and transformed that Bible into a vocabulary that is in the present and not in the past when it was written.
I will forever say:-
I love Thee O Lord my strength, and Father I thank You for Jesus.
Well Brenda, I want you to know that I love you as a brother loves a sister.
There are not many who will tell you the truth, perhaps for fear of offending you.
But what you are believing is not true.
I think that you need to start from scratch again, and don't be complicated and make the easy things complicated.
You see, everything is simple. All that is required from you is to BELIEVE in the LORD JESUS CHRIST and you shall be saved, believe NOT and you shall be damned.
I know that you know the Scriptures very well, but that doesn't profit you much because you don't believe Jesus.
If you don't believe what the Lord Jesus said in John 10:30, then you don't believe Him whatever else He said in His Word the Bible.
The Lord Jesus is speaking, "I and the Father are ONE."
In that statement the Lord Jesus Christ is saying that He is the Father.
But you are saying that Jesus is NOT the Father, you say that Yahweh is the Father.
Can you see that you need to adjust and believe what the Lord Jesus is saying and not what your feelings are saying or someone else's teachings.
The Scriptures are supposed to be the authority over you, and NOT you over the Scriptures.
So please read John 10:30 again, but slowly. If you are not really sure, ask the Lord Jesus, or I will help you in explaining John 10:30.
No Brenda, don't throw in a red herring, we will not chase any red herrings, but we will stay on John 10 :30 till you agree with what the Lord Jesus has said. :-)
Is the Lord Jesus Christ the Father? Yes? or No?
Paul,
I have already explained what John ch. 10 v. 30 means, and you do not accept it. It is like someone using one or two letters but not using the whole of the alphabet to put a book together. Unless we use the whole of the scriptures we shall not live by every word that comes out of the mouth of God. God has made Jesus our Lord and He is the only door that gives us access to the Father. He is the Word made flesh and, no matter how hard anyone tries to change what is written.
God love you, my friend, but John 10:30 doesn't say that and John 14:9-11 clearly says, "... but the Father who dwells in Me does the works." Also, Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 says that "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Those are pretty hard to ignore.
Honestly, what is your interpretation of "...nor the Son..." and what it actually means?
Hey Brenda, It good to see you back online.
Hi Keith, thank you, it is nice to be back.
Paul,
when I said in my last comment to you 'I explained....' I did not mean that my explanation was the answer, but when I respond to your comments I can only use scripture, which I believe does not say that other scripture is wrong but it goes together with it. If we try to add or subtract from Scripture it does not fall into line with the rest of what is written. I do believe that you love the Lord Jesus, and so do I, but loving Him and believing in Him requires obedience to what He says and takes a person through many trials. That is what 'working out our salvation' means. It is not a case where we do nothing, it begins with believing, being baptized first in water, then by the Holy Spirit in order to grow in Christ. It is an ongoing process.
Brenda and Keith,
Brenda, I didn't asked you to EXPLAIN John 10:30. I have asked you, whether you believe Jesus in John 10:30 that He is the Father?
And don't answer me with Scriptures. I believe the Scriptures and I don't argue with Scriptures. I argue and debate with you and not with the Scriptures.
I can see that both of you are experts in introducing red herrings :-)
Jesus said, 'the Father is greater than I,' (John 14:28) that would be a bigger red herring at this time :-)
John 10:30 Jesus said, "I and the Father are ONE."
Keith, you said, "But John 10:30 doesn't say that"
Doesn't say, WHAT ?
If it doesn't mean what Jesus has said, then it would mean that Jesus and the Father are TWO ?
Or does it mean that Jesus and the Father are THREE, a trinity ?
If Jesus is NOT the Father, then somebody else is the Father.
If somebody else is the Father, then Jesus and the Father are TWO, Yes TWO ! And NOT ONE.
No! we don't need to know what that means in Greek or in Hebrew or in Swahili :-) but in plain English language.
According to John 10:30, IS Jesus the Father ? Yes or No ?
Paul,
In John ch. 17 vs. 20 - 22 Jesus says:- 'I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;…
This could not show clearer that Jesus is talking about He and the Father being joined as One, yet the 'us' shows that they are more than one. We can also be one in them, but that does not make us the Father, it is only when we have the 'glory' given to us by Jesus (through Him being the mediator between God and man ) that we all are of the same Spirit as God and we are One with Him. You speak of 'plain English language' Paul, yet you do not accept it as speaking truth.
We must all work out our own salvation Paul, and grow in the Lord Jesus by having our daily manna. I would starve to Spiritual death if I ate one crumb, I need to eat daily if I want to stay 'alive'. The Holy Spirit, which Jesus said the Father would send, is the Spirit which enlightens the Word to me and is my teacher, comforter and counsellor.
"According to John 10:30, IS Jesus the Father ? Yes or No ? "
The answer to your question is NO.
Now, will you please oblige me and give me a short answer also, to the next three questioms?
Are you, Jesus?
Is Brenda, Jesus?
Am I, Jesus?
Brenda
You said, "This could not show clearer that Jesus is talking about He and the Father being joined as One".
No Brenda, The Lord Jesus is NOT joined as One with another called 'Father'. You are greatly mistaken.
If the Lord Jesus is joined with another, then Jesus and the other are TWO and not ONE.
Perhaps some kind of a Siamese twin. No Brenda, absolutely not.
The Lord Jesus can be in UNION with someone else, but then they are still TWO who are in union and not ONE.
But the Lord Jesus said, that He and the Father are ONE and the same person. He doesn't say that the Father is another One, as you are saying.
Now, plain language is that which Keith has said in his last comment, 'The answer to your question is NO.' Well, that is plain language :-)
Brenda, the reason that you don't understand the Scriptures is, because you don't believe in the Lord Jesus. If you would believe in the Lord Jesus, then you would understand the Scriptures.
John chapter 17 is NOT the Lord Jesus praying.
I have explained that to you a long time ago.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Almighty the creator of heaven and earth and He is NOT a sinner that He needs to pray, ONLY SINNERS need to pray.
John chapter 17 is MY prayer, that is because I am the sinner and I need to pray.
Because I wasn't around two thousand years ago therefore Jesus prayed on my behalf and in my place and for me.
If you read John 17 prayerfully you will know that the Lord Jesus has taken the place of an ordinary man, the place of the last High priest of the old covenant and He has established a brand new covenant in a NEW order, the order of Melchizadeck.
To explain more will make the comment too long.
Brenda, you are using metaphorical Scripture passages and you think that would prove the Lord Jesus wrong.
John 10:30, does Jesus say the He IS the Father ?
You should NOT say that the Father is another person to Jesus, otherwise they are TWO.
Jesus said, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE!' consequently He is NOT TWO!
I think that you need to resolve that problem and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and then you shall be saved.
But, because you don't believe in Jesus, therefore you believe in another god called Yahweh who cannot save.
Thank you brother Keith, that surely is a plain answer :-)
I think that you know what that means, do you?
That means that you don't believe that God is one, you believe that God is two or three persons, a trinity.
It means that Jesus Christ is Not the Lord God Almighty.
It means that another one is God in His place, a so called 'the Father' by the name of Yahweh and you call him the true God and the Father of all.
You have exactly of the same problem as Brenda, you don't believe the Lord Jesus Christ.
But remember, I am preaching the good news, which is to repent of unbelief and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and then you shall be saved, you and your household.
That's good news, isn't it ?
Answers to your questions.
'Are you, Jesus?' No I am not Jesus, and I don't want you to worship me, or pray to me my friend.
'Is Brenda, Jesus?' No, Brenda is not Jesus, obviously, Jesus is not a female and we don't pray to her or worship her, she is our sister.
'Am I, Jesus?' well, are you? :-) how can you be Jesus if you don't believe in Him and what He has said?
And if you claim to be Jesus, then you would be IN PLACE of Jesus Christ, which I have said is the 'antichrist'.
If you would be the Lord Jesus, then I would be your ambassador and representing you and your kingdom, and I would worship and pray to you.
But that is not so my friend.
John 10:30 Unmistakably Jesus said that He is the FATHER and for that reason they wanted to stone Him to death (John 10:33).
They said, 'You being a man, make Yourself out to be God'.
Well, is Jesus the God you worship ? Or is He just a mere man claiming to be the Lord God the Almighty the creator of heaven and earth the Alpha and the Omega?
This comment has been removed by the author.
Well Paul,
I have to say that I can hardly believe what you are saying regarding John ch. 17, saying that it is not the Lord Jesus praying. I can see why you are totally confused now Paul - you claim to believe in Jesus, but ignore what He says. You only have to look at what you have written in many comments to see much contradiction.
What you say about male and female contradicts the scripture that says in Galatians ch. 3 v. 28:-
'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.' emphasizing again the being 'one in Christ Jesus'.
We are the body of Christ on earth,(that body consists of many parts), and we have the mind of Christ. That does not make us God, however we are children of God being born of His Spirit, and Jesus was the firstborn of many brethren.
Colossians ch. 1 vs. 15 - 20 states Who Jesus is Paul:-
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre eminence.
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
I love the way scripture answers every question we have concerning God and Jesus His Son.
No Brenda, I do not have contradictions.
Because you are not agreeing with sound reasoning therefore you think that I have contradictions.
When the Lord Jesus said, 'that He and the Father are ONE, but you are saying that the Lord Jesus and the Father are TWO (John 10:30).
Brenda, tell me, who is in contradiction ?
When the Scriptures said that the Lord Jesus has NO mother, NO father, NO genealogy etc. (Hebr. 7:3), but you say that the Lord Jesus Christ has a Father.
Tell me, who is in contradiction ?
When sound reasoning and the Scriptures say that the creator of heaven and earth DOES NOT and CAN NOT have a father, then you are quoting a metaphor like John 14: 28 (or any other passage) and say, ' you see, Jesus Himself said that He has a Father and that His Father is greater than Jesus.'
Tell me who is in contradiction ?
When the Lord Jesus said, 'Hear O Israel the Lord your God is ONE' (Mark 12:29, Deut. 6:4), but you are saying that the Lord our God is TWO or three (a trinity).
Tell me who is in contradiction ?
When the Scriptures say that the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth IS the only true God (Jude 1:25) and the creator of heaven and earth and everything in it (Col. 1:16 and John 1:3-10), then you are saying that Yahweh is God and Jesus is only His Son.
Well Brenda, you need to do a lot of repenting.
Galatians 3:28 is only in the Spirit.
In the flesh we are male and female, and the Lord Jesus came in the flesh and He was male and not female. Nowhere in the Bible God is referred as female, He is ALWAYS referred to as 'HE', meaning male in the flesh, otherwise it would say 'SHE' the goddess.
Colossians 1:15-20 That is it what I have always been saying that the Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY Lord God Almighty. But you think that Jesus is the image of another God ?
You said, 'For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.'
And 'I love the way scripture answers every question we have concerning God and Jesus His Son.'
What are you saying Brenda ?
“God and Jesus His Son.” ?
No wonder why the whole world says that those trinitarian Christians are weird and illogical.
And no wonder why those trinitarian Christian Churches are dead, yes, dead! although some have a reputation that they are alive, but the Lord Jesus said that they are dead.
Dead because they believe in MANY gods just like the pagans.
But you ought not to believe in many gods, but in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, otherwise you are transgressing the first and second commandment of the Lord.
Time to stop going around in circles Paul, you have been denying scripture and believing in man's doctrine for years. All I, and many others in the past, have been able to do is have a conversation with you regarding these scriptures, but if you refuse to believe in them then all I can say is that you have to work out your own salvation just as I have to. I love the way God has enabled mankind to be reconciled to Him through Jesus, I thank God that Jesus came in the flesh to become the sacrifice that was necessary to bring this about, and I thank God that the Holy Spirit has been sent to be my teacher as I grow in the body of Christ on earth as a child of God.
Hey Paul,
First of all, you are correct when you say that you are not Jesus. However, we are one in Spirit with God, Jesus and with each other.
Let's read again, from the Bible.
"I and my Father are one." John 10:30
This tells us the Jesus is one with the father. Isn't that correct?
Now, let's look at the following verses.
"Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
You see, they are making the same mistake, you are making. Jesus is not proclaiming himself to be God, but god, in the sense that he is a direct creation of God. Let's read a little further and you will see that Jesus explains himself to you and them.
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;"
Right there!!!!!! Did you catch it? First of all, let's step back and look at what Jesus is saying in context. He is quoting Psalm 82:6.
"They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. Psalm 82:6"
Jesus is making himself clear. It is not that he is God, but he is a "god" or of God, a Son of the Most High. He goes on the say exactly that, in the following verses.
Before going further, there's another thing, did you catch it???? The Word of God are the Works of God, God's truth being manifested, in all of us, the sons of God. This is backed up by John 1:12.
"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."
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This comment has been removed by the author.
Let's continue....
"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON OF GOD. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is IN me, and I IN him."
He says a lot here. First, that he was sanctified, set apart, made Holy, by the Father. Secondly, that he, Jesus, was sent into the world. You can not send yourself or make yourself holy. He then says, "I am the SON OF GOD". Why?????????? Because he does the works of Who??????? Say it Paul. It is very easy to read. Jesus is doing the Works of HIS FATHER. God's Truth is manifested in him. He's asking you the same question, he asked them. Do you believe me or not?
Getting back to the original question of being ONE with God. Being one with God doesn't make us God. Does it? "NO!!!!!!" is the obvious answer.
Let's read another part of the scriptures, that you ignore.
"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be ONE; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may BE IN US, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be ONE, just as We are ON." John 17:20-22
You say that Jesus and the Father are one, then that means Jesus is the Father. Using your logic, then since we are one with Jesus, then you, Brenda, me and all believers are Jesus and thereby, the Father. We are God.
Finally, in you answer to my questions, you said,
"That means that you don't believe that God is one, you believe that God is two or three persons, a trinity. It means that Jesus Christ is Not the Lord God Almighty."
You are half correct and you may be finally getting it .... Jesus Christ is Not the Lord God Almighty. He is the Son of God and one in Spirit with our Father, YHWH, El Shaddai, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh.
I hope that helps you understand it.
I know that Brenda and I hope, in agreement, that one day you will allow God to teach you, rather that skewing the Word of God to meet your beliefs. As for now, I hope to see you on Brenda's or my blog.
May God Bless You and Your Family and Open Your Eyes to God's Truth, not yours.
Keith
I say 'Amen' to what you have said Keith, and I know that God loves Paul as much as He loves us, and all believers in Jesus. The beautiful thing is that God's Word can not go out to any of us and come back 'void' to Him, it is the Word itself that achieves what God intended it to achieve - there is 'victory' in Jesus the Word of God, Son of the Father, our beautiful Saviour.
Brenda, we are going around in circles till you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Christ you are NOT allowed to have another god next to the ONLY TRUE GOD Jesus Christ our Lord and ONLY God.
And I think that you should not rest till you have dealt with that serious problem.
Remember, I have said that I am willing to help you deal with that problem, that is because it undermines your spirituality and you are running in vain.
Look Brenda, all your peers can't help you, because they are in the same deception as you are. They also believe that God is three persons who are collectively one God (a trinity), in fact they all believe the lie (2 Thes. 2:11) just like the Scripture has said.
Keith, you said, 'we are one in Spirit with God',
Yes that's right, but what it means is, that the Lord Jesus came and made His abode in us (the new birth), just as He has said.
You said, '"I and my Father are one."John 10:30
This tells us the Jesus is one with the father. Isn't that correct?'
No Keith that's not correct.
That's where all the problems and misunderstandings start.
If a deception can sneak in, that would be the point of entry and the door.
[Point 1 ] John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and the Father are one”.
Here Jesus is saying, that He and the Father are one and the same person.
[Point 2 ] Most people and ALL trinitarians without fail say that Jesus is one (in union) with another person called 'Father'.
Can you see the difference in those two explanations?
In [Point 1 ] is only one who remains to be God.
In the [Point 2 ] are TWO who are God. (a trinity)
That is the smallest point with the biggest outcome, in other words, Satan uses the smallest diversion to cause the biggest deception the whole world has ever seen.
I marvel of the ingenuity of Satan to produce such a masterpiece of deception as the trinity. He doesn't accept John 10:30 that God is ONE.
And more so, I thank the Lord Jesus to open my eyes to it.
Keith, I have been reading your comments a few times to make sure that I fully understand what you are saying.
You said, 'Jesus is making himself clear. It is not that he is God, but he is a "god" or of God, a Son of the Most High.'
No my friend, you are transgressing [Point 1 ] again. And you are demoting the Lord Jesus Christ to a little god and elevate another god and call him to be the Most High.
Can you see that everything is against the Lord Jesus Christ, which is called 'antichrist'.
And Jesus is NOT a god of a God as you have said!
That is exactly what all the churches believe today, they are praying to a big God through a little god, that is the reason why churches are DEAD.
All trinitarians worship a false god they do not know, an unknowable god who cannot hear. Yes, they give him the name Yahweh and worship him who is a false god, but they are unwilling to worship the true God Jesus Christ (1 John 5:20).
We believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and worship Him just like all the disciples of the Lord Jesus in the Bible (Mat. 28:17, Mat. 2:11, Mat. 14:33, Mat. 28:9 and many more).
' Thou shalt not worship any other god or bow down to them', but Jesus never refused worship, but all unbelievers will worship that false god called Yahweh (Rev. 13:8).
The true God (1 John 5:20) demands that you worship the FATHER in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24). That means that we worship our Father Jesus Christ in Spirit and in truth just like all of his disciples did. (John 10:30)
Truth and deception!
When I ask a professor at the university ( an atheist), what does John 10:30 mean, "I and the Father are ONE," without fail he says, it means that Jesus IS the Father.
But when I ask any trinitarian clergy, they all say that John 10:30 means that Jesus and the Father are TWO separate persons.
Now, unbelievers present the truth concerning John 10:30, because they do not have a bias.
But the trinitarians who claim to believe the truth, present a LIE which is against the truth because of their bias and the deception factor.
Even though they understand it, they willfully decide against the truth, because of their bias.
That's not all. In the height of their deception, all trinitarians claim that one little god is praying to a bigger god and both of those gods 'are' or equal ONE GOD.
Not only that, but they say that THREE separate god-persons equal ONE GOD.
If that is not the epitome of deception, then what is ?
At least the pagans don't lie in that, they call them 'the gods'.
Many god-persons are called 'THEY ' 'the gods', and ONE God-person is called 'HE', the Lord God.
Keith said,
"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON OF GOD. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is IN me, and I IN him."
"He says a lot here. First, that he was sanctified, set apart, made Holy, by the Father. Secondly, that he, Jesus, was sent into the world. You can not send yourself or make yourself holy. He then says, "I am the SON OF GOD". Why?????????? Because he does the works of Who??????? Say it Paul. It is very easy to read. Jesus is doing the Works of HIS FATHER. God's Truth is manifested in him. He's asking you the same question, he asked them. Do you believe me or not?"
Are you talking about the Lord Jesus Christ here in that comment?
"Jesus made Holy by the Father".
If the Lord Jesus was made Holy by another person called Father, that means that the Lord Jesus wasn't Holy at His birth.
Do you mean that He was an unholy sinner before He was made Holy?
I don't think so my friend.
Jesus is the Holy ONE of Israel from the beginning when He created the world and at His birth and no one made Jesus Holy.
You said, "Secondly, that he, Jesus, was sent into the world. You can not send yourself or make yourself holy. He then says, ”I am the SON OF GOD"
Jesus was sent into the world, by whom? By another god?
I don't think so.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty the creator of heaven and earth and everything in it, and He is nobody's son, and neither did somebody else send Him.
Nobody is able to send the creator of heaven and earth into the world which He Himself has made.
He came into His own creation by His own volition, and the Lord Jesus Christ is only CALLED the Son of God, because of His incarnation.
Just think! And don't turn metaphors into facts.
You said, "Why?????????? Because he does the works of Who??????? Say it Paul. It is very easy to read. Jesus is doing the Works of HIS FATHER. God's Truth is manifested in him."
Yes brother, I say it loud and clear and I think that you should listen, Jesus Christ does NOT do the works of someone else called Father, that is, because He IS the Father.
Jesus Christ is the creator of everything and nothing came into being apart from Him and there was no God who told Him what to do.
Yes, it is very easy to read, but it is better to understand, and no trinitarian understands.
Trinitarians cannot distinguish facts from metaphors.
Paul, I'm not going to let you drag me back into this unfruitful discussion. If you read my comments again, you will find your error. By the way, holy means "set apart" and yes, God set Jesus apart or made holy, from birth. My comment doesn't say anything like what you have implied.
By the way, thanks for coming over to my blog and commenting about the age of the earth.
You are welcome my friend, and you have been a good challenge concerning the doctrine of the trinity.
Lots of blessings in Jesus Christ our Lord and only God :-)
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